Growing Chrysanthemum Bonsai

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I have to go back to the Chrysanthemum Book, to refresh my memory as how to work with them. My trials gave me flowers but not "bonsai" by any stretch of imagination. Bill Valavanis is the one living person I'd look to for examples of success. He has done it. I never quite got the shapes and branch ramification right.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Your best bet is if you live in a mild climate, or have a growing space where you can take them out of dormancy middle of January, and begin the training. I can't really start until May, so I am doomed to halfway measures.

 

[Pitoon]

I have to go back to the Chrysanthemum Book, to refresh my memory as how to work with them. My trials gave me flowers but not "bonsai" by any stretch of imagination. Bill Valavanis is the one living person I'd look to for examples of success. He has done it. I never quite got the shapes and branch ramification right.

I'm believing more and more that growing these dwarfs into presentable bonsai takes some real skills. This year I will focus on just one plant. The rest I will continue to propagate. I'm wondering how far I can go this year with the one. I have a decent seed station that I could use to keep it growing this fall and winter with good light and the basement is a steady 55degrees all winter.
Keeping it from flowering should get some good growth on it.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@Pitoon
Keeping a mum from flowering would be difficult outdoors. Their flowering is tightly controlled by day length. During long day length, they grow vegetatively. When day length decreases, and the nights become longer, they are triggered to go into flowering mode. The late bloomers, that flower in November, are triggered by the night becoming longer than the day at the equinox. The early bloomers, the ones that bloom in September and early October. These are triggered by the night lengthening, so even though in August the day is still longer than night, sometime in August the 2 get "equal enough" that the bloom cycle is triggered and flower buds begin growing.

I would let them flower. Then to get them to revert to vegetative growth, just put them under lights with a long day and short night. Under lights I use 18 hour day and 6 hour night for my orchids. I know for a fact that about 5 weeks under those lights the mums will begin growing like it was spring. THey go "full on" vegetative growth. If you keep it cool, the growth will be a little slow, but quite healthy.

So let them flower, and just use long day, short night in the winter light garden to get them to revert to vegetative growth.

Since blooming is governed by day length, you can force them to bloom at any time by altering the Day-Night cycle. Somewhere around 4 to 8 weeks of short day, long night will start the blooming cycle. A similar time of long day, short night, sends them into vegetative growth. To piss them off, give them equal day, equal night year round and see what they do.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I agree, they want to bloom. I was watching some videos on Nippon Daisy care. Mind you just in the ground as a landscape plant. They mentiond removing the first flush of flower buds...to dead head them before they bloom. They would bloom twice if you permitted it. At least that was the one nursery video I watched. Pinching them back even in landscape until July 4th it said...Now, I believe Mr. Valavanis mentioned not to prune "after" July though. So with bonsai...we want them kept tight in structure.

 

[Pitoon]

I agree, they want to bloom. I was watching some videos on Nippon Daisy care. Mind you just in the ground as a landscape plant. They mentiond removing the first flush of flower buds...to dead head them before they bloom. They would bloom twice if you permitted it. At least that was the one nursery video I watched. Pinching them back even in landscape until July 4th it said...Now, I believe Mr. Valavanis mentioned not to prune "after" July though. So with bonsai...we want them kept tight in structure.

Are you going to try and grow one?

 

[Cadillactaste]

Are you going to try and grow one?

I...may have a Nippon Daisy on my bench. Remember I inquired about them awhile back.

 

[Pitoon]

I...may have a Nippon Daisy on my bench. Remember I inquired about them awhile back.

They are not easy to find. I've looked all over and just one nursery I found said they should be getting some in next month or so. Everywhere I look all I could find were Shasta Daisies, but then again Nippon bloom in the fall so it could still be too early for them to hit the market.

 

[Cadillactaste]

They are not easy to find. I've looked all over and just one nursery I found said they should be getting some in next month or so. Everywhere I look all I could find were Shasta Daisies, but then again Nippon bloom in the fall so it could still be too early for them to hit the market.

I inquired on Bonsai Sales... good luck. They also go under another name Montauk daisy .

 

[Pitoon]

I inquired on Bonsai Sales... good luck. They also go under another name Montauk daisy .

LOL, when I asked the nurseries and gave them that name they said what daisy?

 

[PaleFire]

Are you going to try and grow one?

A nippon daisy? I might if i find one somewhere.

 

[Cadillactaste]

LOL, when I asked the nurseries and gave them that name they said what daisy?

That's most likely why... Explain it's a chrysanthemum.

 

[Pitoon]

That's most likely why... Explain it's a chrysanthemum.

They seem to know it in this area as Nippon. If this nursery doesn't get them in, i'll probably have to look online.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Bill Valavanis has his specimen plant(s?). If asked politely, he probably would start a batch of cuttings if he felt there was enough interest. Ask him.

 

[Pitoon]

Bill Valavanis has his specimen plant(s?). If asked politely, he probably would start a batch of cuttings if he felt there was enough interest. Ask him.

I found a place online that sells them. If this nursery doesn't get them the next several weeks I'll just order it online. Once I get them.....you know it's propagation time!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Found, or stumbled across another possible source of Nipponanthemum nipponicum, they are also sneaking around under the name Chrysanthemum yezoense. Who knew?

Currently in stock at Far Reaches Farm,

Chrysanthemum arcticum

This is a true jewel and one we always look forward to seeing in the fall when the tabletop sized patch of low dense dark green leaves are alight with outrageous large white daisy flowers. Talk about contrast with so many of the hot colors of Autumn! In

www.farreachesfarm.com

Far Reaches has many, many really odd and exotic species, some might be good for bonsai, many would be fabulous for Kusamono !!!!

 

[PA_Penjing]

very cool focus

 

[Pitoon]

Found, or stumbled across another possible source of Nipponanthemum nipponicum, they are also sneaking around under the name Chrysanthemum yezoense. Who knew?

Currently in stock at Far Reaches Farm,

Chrysanthemum arcticum

This is a true jewel and one we always look forward to seeing in the fall when the tabletop sized patch of low dense dark green leaves are alight with outrageous large white daisy flowers. Talk about contrast with so many of the hot colors of Autumn! In

www.farreachesfarm.com

Far Reaches has many, many really odd and exotic species, some might be good for bonsai, many would be fabulous for Kusamono !!!!

@Leo in N E Illinois could that be a different species?

Nipponanthemum nipponicum also known as by the following names "Nippon daisy" or "Montauk daisy"

Chrysanthemum yezoense also know as "Hokkaido chrysanthemum"

The website you posted mentions they were selling that plant with a different name. However both species seem to be woody. It could be a good alternative to the Nippon.

 

[Djtommy]

That Nippon daisy specimen from Bill is quit something though. I assume similar trunks or even more spectacular ones may exist in japan though I have never seen one even close to it.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I believe the 2 different names, actually 3 different names, including Chrysanthemum nipponicum, Nipponanthemum nipponicum, and Chrysanthemum yezoense all refer to exactly one species, the same species. 3 names, all referring to the same type specimen.

Nippon is an English transduction of the Japanese for "Japan". Hokkaido is the province in Japan that this mum comes from. And Yezoensis means from Yezo, which I believe is an older name for the area that today is the Province of Hokkaido. So all 3 names have elements that point to the same general area. "There is only one", and off in the bar, the taxonomists are duking it out over who's name has priority. But since they are all botany geeks, there isn't a single bloody nose, yet.

I do know a tale of someone who was so eager to get a new plant named after him, that he forgot to check the rules. Got himself arrested, fined thousands of dollars, and the taxonomist involved lost his job and the botanical garden he worked for lost millions, well at least hundreds of thousands of dollars in grants over the whole thing. So naming of plants, especially plants with pretty flowers (the plant involved was an orchid) is not a totally dry, totally boring task. Though it is a pretty nerdy thing to get into.