Grafting 101

[0soyoung]

Why?

Polar auxin transport is downward. The hole disrupts this flow, so auxin piles in the cambium at the top of the hole. Excess auxin causes rapid growth (to wit, the swelling above a tourniquet or when wire has 'bitten in'). @garywood recognizes this as 'where the callus forms first' (I linked to a previous discussion in #119). Cambium below the hole is 'starved' of auxin and very slow growing (until the graft has 'taken').

 

[CWTurner]

Why?

Doesn't the tree hormone(?) that encourages roots, come down the tree?
CW
Oops, missed the above response

 

[markyscott]

Polar auxin transport is downward. The hole disrupts this flow, so auxin piles in the cambium at the top of the hole. Excess auxin causes rapid growth (to wit, the swelling above a tourniquet or when wire has 'bitten in'). @garywood recognizes this as 'where the callus forms first' (I linked to a previous discussion in #119). Cambium below the hole is 'starved' of auxin and very slow growing (until the graft has 'taken').

Great! We all learn something. Thanks!

 

[0soyoung]

Great! We all learn something. Thanks!

That is why you do stuff like this thread - right? It is why I read 'em.
Thanks! back atcha .

 

[markyscott]

That is why you do stuff like this thread - right? It is why I read 'em.
Thanks! back atcha .

That's right - we're all students here and we learn from each other. Appreciate the input.

 

[justBonsai]

Well I know its only been a few weeks but my trees have grown like MAD. Haven't had this much spring growth before. Probably because last season was fairly strong and a lot of sugars were built up. The coast live oak I posted is a big green bush and the shoots feel plenty firm and look hardened to me. I think I'm going to do my approach grafts this week. Will post updates and pictures when I do.

Also the first time I used chicken poo--the composted dry hard balls, forgot brand. More nitrogen in it than expected and its showing up in the trees. Good stuff.

 

[sorce]

detached scion grafting.

I like how the scion went from pine to juniper! Magic!

I see the juniper detached scion....

Looks like last year's brown wood?

Got me a $15 "gold coast" trunk yesterday.

Looking to attempt to put some Shimpaku on it.

Any tips on selecting a proper scion would be great!

Sorce

 

[Lazylightningny]

This thread needs to go in the resources section!

 

[markyscott]

This thread needs to go in the resources section!

Thanks LL. I’m glad you got something out of it.

Scott

 

[theta]

Still trying to wrap my head around the different types of grafts. Why is it sometimes you can graft things onto something without any roots, like just a bare scion we cut of something or what's common in pine grafting - with very little needle count, but it doesn't need roots, can just cut it off one section of the tree and graft it onto another. But other times the scion needs to be supported with it's own root system until the graft takes.

Is this just a matter of how much foliage mass is present on the scion?

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

And the moisture loss I guess. And how long it takes to merge. Depends on species.

 

[0soyoung]

Still trying to wrap my head around the different types of grafts. Why is it sometimes you can graft things onto something without any roots, like just a bare scion we cut of something or what's common in pine grafting - with very little needle count, but it doesn't need roots, can just cut it off one section of the tree and graft it onto another. But other times the scion needs to be supported with it's own root system until the graft takes.

Is this just a matter of how much foliage mass is present on the scion?

It is analogous to rooting a cutting versus layering. With layering, the mother plant supports the 'scion' via water and nutrients supplied through the wood (xylem). With approach/thread grafting the 'scion' has roots - water and nutrients are supplied through its own wood. This is regardless of whether the scion is a separate potted plant or is a branch of the mother tree that has been bent into place. Because of this supply of water, we don't have to worry about the 'scion' desiccating and dying. With a cutting, one must take measures to assure it does not desiccate before it 'takes'/roots - make a little terrarium around the foliage.

In all cases, foliage supplies the stimulus, materials, and energy for growing new tissues = photosynthesis must happen. Therefore, one would believe that more foliage is better, but this also means more potential water loss to transpiration with cuttings (hence, what is the optimum trade off?).

 

[theta]

ok yeah that make sense.

What got me thinking about it is just how all the pine grafting I've see are these little shoots just basically jammed into a branch, cambium lined up, but basically just stuck in there, wrapped up and left for a while.
But all the decidous grafts I've seen are either thread or approach grafts with the scion being supported by roots.

Just got me thinking, why can't I cut off a small branch or shoot of my maple and jam it into the trunk somewhere? Granted with perfect aftercare - misting, wrapping, etc... Maybe it's more of a theoretical question than if it's actually possible.

 

[theta]

ok yeah that make sense.

What got me thinking about it is just how all the pine grafting I've see are these little shoots just basically jammed into a branch, cambium lined up, but basically just stuck in there, wrapped up and left for a while.
But all the decidous grafts I've seen are either thread or approach grafts with the scion being supported by roots.

Just got me thinking, why can't I cut off a small branch or shoot of my maple and jam it into the trunk somewhere? Granted with perfect aftercare - misting, wrapping, etc... Maybe it's more of a theoretical question than if it's actually possible.

Maybe pines heal faster? Or transpiration rate of pine needles are lower than deciduous?

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

With maples and fruit trees it is possible. It is done in wholesale. http://japanesemaplelovers.com/how-to-graft-japanese-maple-trees/ Just a random google search.

 

[markyscott]

ok yeah that make sense.

What got me thinking about it is just how all the pine grafting I've see are these little shoots just basically jammed into a branch, cambium lined up, but basically just stuck in there, wrapped up and left for a while.
But all the decidous grafts I've seen are either thread or approach grafts with the scion being supported by roots.

Just got me thinking, why can't I cut off a small branch or shoot of my maple and jam it into the trunk somewhere? Granted with perfect aftercare - misting, wrapping, etc... Maybe it's more of a theoretical question than if it's actually possible.

Theta - I think it’s a matter of aesthetics really. Detached scion grafting is commonly done in production orchards. Very popular method for fruit trees and maples.



But approach grafting or thread grafting can be done as well with a very high success rate. In a few years on a broadleaf tree you’ll never even know it had been grafted. Thread grafting on a pine or juniper is dang near impossible. Approach grafting can be done, but it can make a large wound of it fails whereas a detached scion can be inserted into some very small spots with very little damage to the understock.

Scott

 

[markyscott]

This tree has a long stretch of trunk near the apex that is too straight. Also, i want the apex to lean away from the number 1 tree in this planting. So I’ll graft a shoot to be a new apex. First, I mark where I’d like the shoot to be grafted. Then I make a clean “V-cut” with a grafting knife, opening a groove a bit narrower than the shoot.

 

[markyscott]

On th shoot, slice the top so that it’s diameter is the right size to fit in the “V-cut”. Then gently scrape the bark away on the bottom of the shoot.

 

[markyscott]

Insert the shoot into the cut and holes in place with a grafting nail and\or grafting tape.

 

[markyscott]

Done for now.