coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Well, he must have done something!
Good/best phosphorous (and/or potassium) sources?
- Thread starter SU2
- Start date
Phosphate glasses. http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf60121a006?journalCode=jafcau
btw who is Walter?
btw who is Walter?
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Maybe if I didn't know about trees and was only into trees for this hobby I might be able to stomach the Mirai stuff.
Almost every job I have ever had involves trees. Trimming,killing,planting and teaching others the same thing.
Now Ryan Neil comes along and groups trees into 3 categories. Pine. I understand that one.
Juniper. O.K.
He lost me when he came up with a word for trees he isn't very familiar with.
Elongating.
It tells me he doesn't know as much as he thinks he does.
How closely related are cypress and beech?Both under the same grouping on the Mirai planet.
How about tamaracks and live oak.
Those 2 trees are real close right?
Same family in Ryan Neil's world.
Like boon calling cutting shoots back on a pine "decandling"
Wrong term for what he's teaching but at least he's close.
From now I will refrain from deriding and making fun of his lack of knowledge.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
You can do whatever you want, but realize the person you are mocking has a degree in horticulture or something related, and spent 6 years working on bonsai under one of the true masters in Japan. I don't think he has a lack of knowledge. Have you seen any of the free live streams? He obviously knows what he is doing, both in terms of horticulture and bonsai styling.
Now, the elongating species thing...is definitely a term he made up to help group trees by the way they are treated or respond to bonsai treatment, for the purpose of teaching his classes. If that's what you want to fixate on, have at it. I won't comment on it any further.
SU2
Omono
Thank you so much for posting this, I'd heard this before and had completely forgotten about it - does anyone mind verifying this is in fact the case? Obviously excess fert means excess salt and a lowered (more acidic) pH, but most of my specimen are bougies which prefer slightly-acidic so that's no concern to me.
Had heard that before, that it simply discards the excess (much like the human body won't use more protein than it wants, there's an optimum amount and extra doesn't really do much, except perhaps contribute mildly to weight-gain)
SU2
Omono
I can't wait til after our county's fertilizer-ban ends (within a month iirc), and the biotone line is back I love that stuff! They only had miracle gro when I realized the ban was a day away so I'd just gotten generic MG granules..
Are you getting this as a 'for-plants' product?
I've gotta ask you something here because I've heard this before and cannot make any sense out of it, you're saying that (in refined plants, at least) there becomes this advantage to be had by 'directed fertilizing', where you're fertilizing sections of the container unevenly....why? I know this is a thing, I see them doing it on Mirai youtubes, seen it in other articles, cannot make a lick of sense out of the concept that "some parts of the root-ball benefit from fert while others don't", it makes zero sense to me - any elaboration of why this is a thing would be hugely appreciated!! Not only do I do 'homogeneous' fertilization, I actually break-down my fert schedule so I can apply lighter doses more frequently (aiming for a fluid/fert approach similar to what you'd see in a recirculating hydroponic system, where there's a set, constant level of fertilizer that's optimal and isn't deviated from)
I've never had this issue thankfully, the MG granules I use I dissolve by shaking in a cup before-hand (it goes fully into solution, the only time I get a suspension is if I try using my minerals granules that way, they solute ~95%+ but leave some in-suspension)
What are your thoughts on compost tea? I was into the idea of it but it seemed to be not-worthwhile, if that's so then it negates much of the benefit the Tones have over generic MG fertilizers....I guess it depends on the substrate's ecosystem, whether it's balanced (in terms of microbes) or not.
SU2
Omono
Are all forms of potash taken up by plants? Surely there's varying rates-of-absorption amongst the various forms but are any particularly better/worse than others? Or should I just choose by price?
Thanks for the comment re nutrient toxicity - I don't think that was the context he meant his comment in though, surely overdosing the plant is different I think he just meant that if the plant's optimal was 4.3-3.5-8.4 and you'd given it a 5-5-10, you'd be just fine and that excess would not be problematic (of course there's a level where it'd be toxic, I don't think he meant to say you could make 1tbsp/oz solutions and use them w/o killing a plant ;D
SU2
Omono
Thank you so much for that link!!! I'm into chemistry/bio (esp botany, obviously!) and very much appreciate that!!
SU2
Omono
I'm so glad you posted this because I'd been meaning to ask about mirai/ryan's fertilization reco's, it looks like they fertilize WAY less (quantity and frequency) than most practitioners I've ever read (walter pall would be a strong opposite obviously), my gut tells me walter's in the right here but ryan just seems so smart on other aspects...ugh!!
[edit- I've watched a lot of Mirai videos, am now trying to get through lots of bonsai Iligan (RIP) videos when I've got time to watch- any other recommendations on great channels would be appreciated!]
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
SU2
Omono
Pall you mean? And yes there's certainly a huge variance regionally (and species-wise), I know there's no hard&fast answers to this and it's more complicated because I'm in an area + cultivating plants that allow higher fert levels (heavily fertilizing bougies in summer in FL is 'a thing', that's why I was so surprised to be told my 24-8-16 was a no-go :/ )
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
For one thing....
And I believe Walter would agree...
He says you MUST do EVERYTHING EXACTLY THEM SAME WAY.
Which for me totally includes climate.
At least one as different as Mostly Reliable Snow...
And...
WTF is Snow!
Cuz for me, EVERYTHING, includes the act of simply setting trees on the ground in winter.
There are clues to the differences between Mike's and Walter's too.
The timing of Spruce repotting for instance.
And their climate is way more similar than yours!
Even the Temperatures at which nutrient uptake can occur from that post...
You already see you must adjust your method accordingly.
My ficus got mad at a cool night recently...
How bout yours?
Feel me?
I use a good lot of Walter in my Garden, Any smart artist would!
But I can't get away with everything...
Because to me that is EVERYTHING.
It shows true if you study it.
I know there's not much difference as far as ONLY very loose soil and mad water....
But considering your hot and growth capabilities...
I would almost ex N all together!
Sure not douse em with salts all summer!
Small observations...
Today, I rearranged my Bloody Boxwood garden, because the nursery pots on the top, were dripping their calcium depositing salts all over my nice pots below.
This is due to the green balls.
I noticed this where I used to keep my trees on the sills too.
Neath nursery pots I stained the brick.
Neath mine, and its worth noting I did use excessive Miracle grow and other chems at this time,
No staining.
Though now organic, I have noticed less calcium/salt build up on everything.
And I can bend the shit out of thicker boxwood branches and they don't snap
Sorce
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
garywood
Chumono
C, everything that happens physiologically in a tree is in response to a gradient. Be it concentration, pressure, chemical/electrical or temperature. Long subject so here is you a starting point. When cells divide they create a gradient. When foliage transpires it creates a gradient. Phosphorous for example, if there isn't a chemical/electrical gradient then it isn't transported. Simplified but a starting point.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
@garywood hell!
Wasn't expecting that!
I hope you're OK with me running with this PPB concept of yours.
Keeping potential problems at bay!
That is still one of the strongest influences making my collection better!
I figure recently, anti fungus treatment also falls into this PPB....
There is more to PPB than design!
Thanks Gary!
Hope you been well!
Sorce
Wasn't expecting that!
I hope you're OK with me running with this PPB concept of yours.
Keeping potential problems at bay!
That is still one of the strongest influences making my collection better!
I figure recently, anti fungus treatment also falls into this PPB....
There is more to PPB than design!
Thanks Gary!
Hope you been well!
Sorce
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
So are you saying that plant roots don't actively transport (i.e. expend energy) ions/minerals from the soil? Because every reference I've checked indicates that they do this. Within the plant, things appear to move in response to gradients, but not into the roots. Caveat, I'm not a plant biologist so I don't have extensive background in this stuff.
Now, the claim that plants are "smart" enough to only take up what they need, is highly unlikely. If that were the case, you'd never encounter nutrient toxicities. So the question is, within the parameters we are discussing, can we ignore the risks and just throw whatever fertilizer we want, in whatever amount we want, onto the plants? I'm not willing to take that chance, but others should feel free to do as they wish.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
I simply can't believe you're still going on and on and.......on about this. Plants use what they use at the time they need it. The fashion of using low N fert in the fall went out the window a decade ago.
FOR CHRISSAKES--USE A BALANCED NPK FERTLIZER FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE. At this point, making this kind of fine distinction about which plant needs what is silly. They need a solid, well-rounded resource to recover.
FOR CHRISSAKES--USE A BALANCED NPK FERTLIZER FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE. At this point, making this kind of fine distinction about which plant needs what is silly. They need a solid, well-rounded resource to recover.
Stan Kengai
Omono
Yes, I use Alaska brand. It contains mint oil to minimize the smell. There are other brands like Neptune's Harvest.
I've never seen anyone fertilize a certain portion of roots. I have seen fertilizers packed along the nebari of azaleas. What I was talking about was more for easy removal of fertilizer, so that timing of application is more controlled.
Not worth it. This goes to what I said before: don't over-analyze. Use one or two products that work for you.
SU2
Omono
The idea of not using nitrogen the whole growth season! Haha ;D
Are you saying this because the heat&growth capacity is already so high that, if you pushed further with N, that such growth would be wimpy growth, far more susceptible to disease/rot/pests?
I'm planning to switch from frequent low-dose miracle-gro to weekly biotone (good stuff!) granules applied at lower-rates, so better quality and a better ratio
Had pulled the nitro wayyyy back until last week when I used higher doses on a handful of bougies I suspected were about to start flowering, two of them had already set flower buds so I left them be (well I gave them minerals) but the ones that just had slowed-growth got extra nitro as I was 99% they were about to switch into flowering-phase and I'm hoping for another push of growth while the season still supports it!!
SU2
Omono
What are you using for this?
