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coh said:
I used to think something like a global pandemic might be required to break the logjam but even that became completely politicized. I've come to the conclusion it is hopeless.
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A global pandemic to teach people ? Why not a global war while you're at it ?

Is that the kind of thing that you think will make people more intelligent ? Really ?
 
JoeR said:
I always find statements like "society has gone down hill" or "society is only getting worse" interesting. Or even, its the end times!!

Feels like shit is really hitting the fan now, doesn't it?

but for some perspective. Less than 100 years ago, millions of jews and others were being executed with no real treason other than one groups superiority complex and evil will. Unfathomable, yet there are people still alive who experienced something that I could not ever see happening today. But it did. Before that, Egyptians enslaved thousands of people. In India the caste system still to this day prevents the "untouchables" from achieving any greater of a life than toilet cleaner. They are born as less and die less, with no ability to realise their potential.

Society is no better or worse today than before. We simply have more awareness of global atrocities.
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I'm not sure about that. Yes, we do have more awareness via social media, cameras everywhere, etc. But that same ability for everyone to be able to transmit "information" (or propaganda) essentially instantaneously has completely changed the dynamic.

I never imagined that in my lifetime (I'm 58) I'd potentially be witnessing the destruction of the USA essentially from within, but I think we are at the brink. Maybe beyond saving. Forces both on the left and right are to blame and I don't see any evidence that the growing gap will be bridged any time soon.

As for global warming...on the planetary scale and geological time scale, it's just a blip. The planet will go on, life will not be ended. But the blip could well be large enough to cause enough damage that the planet "shrugs off" humans. That would actually probably be best for the planet.
 
coh said:
I'm not sure about that. Yes, we do have more awareness via social media, cameras everywhere, etc. But that same ability for everyone to be able to transmit "information" (or propaganda) essentially instantaneously has completely changed the dynamic.

I never imagined that in my lifetime (I'm 58) I'd potentially be witnessing the destruction of the USA essentially from within, but I think we are at the brink. Maybe beyond saving. Forces both on the left and right are to blame and I don't see any evidence that the growing gap will be bridged any time soon.

As for global warming...on the planetary scale and geological time scale, it's just a blip. The planet will go on, life will not be ended. But the blip could well be large enough to cause enough damage that the planet "shrugs off" humans. That would actually probably be best for the planet.
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good luck in Rochester. such a shame when i saw a woman and her husband assaulted with 2x4s there, mos ago

destruction from the swamp and now the false narrative race war the left/media/celebs pushed (they love race and class warfare, their main objectives)

shoving blm and race down our throats when the demographic has a .8, 80% or four out of five dads walk away from their kids; dont those blm or how is that caring?
good luck - we dont buy it for a second.

the destruction from within that you mentioned, the division, one side is appreciative and thankful for this country and life,
the other has been indoctrinated to think theyre victims, and that this is the only society to ever treat people wrong at one point.
 
coh said:
I never imagined that in my lifetime (I'm 58) I'd potentially be witnessing the destruction of the USA essentially from within, but I think we are at the brink. Maybe beyond saving. Forces both on the left and right are to blame and I don't see any evidence that the growing gap will be bridged any time soon.
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Certainly feels like all the elements for an outbreak of a civil war are there, looking from the outside. Bit concerning situation there.
 
AlainK said:
A global pandemic to teach people ? Why not a global war while you're at it ?

Is that the kind of thing that you think will make people more intelligent ? Really ?
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You completely misinterpreted my statement. Probably intentionally based on your history.

I'll try again:

The idea is that people are tending to become more extremist in their viewpoints...left vs right, conservative vs liberal, etc. No common ground, no meeting of the minds, no willingness to compromise. So something that requires people to work together, like a pandemic, or an alien invasion, might be required if people have become too unwilling to work together. Not to make people more intelligent, or to teach people. Just to get them working together again, toward a common purpose - like making things better for everyone.

And you know what...it might well take a global war at this point.
 
hinmo24t said:
good luck in Rochester. such a shame when i saw a woman and her husband assaulted with 2x4s there, mos ago

destruction from the swamp and now the false narrative race war the left/media/celebs pushed (they love race and class warfare, their main objectives)

shoving blm and race down our throats when the demographic has a .8, 80% or four out of five dads walk away from their kids; dont those blm or how is that caring?
good luck - we dont buy it for a second.

the destruction from within that you mentioned, the division, one side is appreciative and thankful for this country and life,
the other has been indoctrinated to think theyre victims, and that this is the only society to ever treat people wrong at one point.
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If you think "only one side" is the problem, then you are a good example of why there is such a big problem.
 
coh said:
If you think "only one side" is the problem, then you are a good example of why there is such a big problem.
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i fully admit the swamp is both left and right, and a major factor in our financial problems

i just meant, stats are ignored by many, but not all



for perspective for everyone too. i know i mentioned im a pot smoking surfer animal lover, but i have also been awarded in front of 1500 person assemblies in HS for befriending the disabled, etc. i got the Blue Chip award ...i know how quick people are to judge these days
 
coh said:
I'm not sure about that. Yes, we do have more awareness via social media, cameras everywhere, etc. But that same ability for everyone to be able to transmit "information" (or propaganda) essentially instantaneously has completely changed the dynamic.

I never imagined that in my lifetime (I'm 58) I'd potentially be witnessing the destruction of the USA essentially from within, but I think we are at the brink. Maybe beyond saving. Forces both on the left and right are to blame and I don't see any evidence that the growing gap will be bridged any time soon.

As for global warming...on the planetary scale and geological time scale, it's just a blip. The planet will go on, life will not be ended. But the blip could well be large enough to cause enough damage that the planet "shrugs off" humans. That would actually probably be best for the planet.
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I dont disagree, except for the best for the planet statement. But the key part in your response: "the destruction of the USA". Now, the US might be at the worst point its ever been, but in terms of society as a whole- is it really any worse than ever before? Thinking back for example to ancient Rome and the pedophilia, which is *shockingly* 😐 similar to that of the epstein deal?

Humans haven't changed much in the last couple thousands of years, and history repeats itself.
 
JoeR said:
is it really any worse than ever before? Thinking back for example to ancient Rome and the pedophilia, which is *shockingly* 😐 similar to that of the epstein deal?
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I naively would have hoped that in 2000 years the world would have grown in equal rights and treatment.
Then again.. Right now I am watching scenes from ISIS and some permanent presidencies in the world.
Not very good.
 
Basic chemistry quiz...

When you rapidly oxidize hydrocarbons, what molecules are formed as result of the redox reaction?

If you cant answer this without google, how can you make an informed opinion on anthropogenic carbon emissions? How do you feel you have the authority to even chime in?
 
Mr GeaRbOx said:
Basic chemistry quiz...

When you rapidly oxidize hydrocarbons, what molecules are formed as result of the redox reaction?

If you cant answer this without google, how can you make an informed opinion on anthropogenic carbon emissions? How do you feel you have the authority to even chime in?
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I knew it and I STILL don’t really even have the authority to chime in. 🤣
 
Alain, you might was to google “Great flood of 1862”. This, I believe, is before the influence of CO2 in the atmosphere.

Mother Nature has some tricks up her sleeves!
 
JoeR said:
I dont disagree, except for the best for the planet statement. But the key part in your response: "the destruction of the USA". Now, the US might be at the worst point its ever been, but in terms of society as a whole- is it really any worse than ever before? Thinking back for example to ancient Rome and the pedophilia, which is *shockingly* 😐 similar to that of the epstein deal?

Humans haven't changed much in the last couple thousands of years, and history repeats itself.
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I'm not talking about things like Epstein or pedophilia. I'm talking about society becoming so fractured that there is no reconciliation, or at least no reconciliation without some type of civil war or extreme violence and destruction in the streets.

Trump wins close/contested election, I can see left wing radicals riot in the streets. Then they'll be confronted by heavily armed right wingers who are just itching to use those guns.
Trump loses close/contested election, I can see him refusing to leave office (he's been laying the groundwork with his talk of rigged elections and his deserving a 3rd term) which could also lead to violence and a whole host of other negative repercussions.

We've got people attacking each other (even killing) over goddamned face masks - in the midst of the most deadly pandemic in 100 years. We're at the brink.

As for the planet, I don't see how that's even a debate. Every other living thing on the planet would be better off without us. Except dogs, maybe, but they'd get over it.

Now, what was that about procumbens?
 
coh said:
I'm not talking about things like Epstein or pedophilia. I'm talking about society becoming so fractured that there is no reconciliation, or at least no reconciliation without some type of civil war or extreme violence and destruction in the streets.

Trump wins close/contested election, I can see left wing radicals riot in the streets. Then they'll be confronted by heavily armed right wingers who are just itching to use those guns.
Trump loses close/contested election, I can see him refusing to leave office (he's been laying the groundwork with his talk of rigged elections and his deserving a 3rd term) which could also lead to violence and a whole host of other negative repercussions.

We've got people attacking each other (even killing) over goddamned face masks - in the midst of the most deadly pandemic in 100 years. We're at the brink.

As for the planet, I don't see how that's even a debate. Every other living thing on the planet would be better off without us. Except dogs, maybe, but they'd get over it.

Now, what was that about procumbens?
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He will win substantially. Bigly, if you will. Quote this post if im wrong in a few mos
 
Mr GeaRbOx said:
Basic chemistry quiz...

When you rapidly oxidize hydrocarbons, what molecules are formed as result of the redox reaction?

If you cant answer this without google, how can you make an informed opinion on anthropogenic carbon emissions? How do you feel you have the authority to even chime in?
Click to expand...
I'll go a step farther. If you've never done hard science in a lab, you probably don't understand the difficulty with extrapolating hard data beyond the limits of the system. That's all predictive climate models do, plain and simple. It's all they can do.
 
JoeR said:
A couple thoughts about this. I've worked at three university laboratories recently and I believe it is important to understand the... 'scientific' process.

First and foremost, the scientific community is as biased and politically fueled as any major corporation or politician in America.

You know what dictates which studies get funded? Well, funders with an agenda to prove. This is why our medical community has stagnated in terms of new drug therapies. They are controlled by big pharma, who has the money to support the jobs and laboratories associated with medical breakthrough advances. Id love a career extracting and utilizing botanical secondary metabolites for medicinal and industrial purposes- but where does one begin when all medical research is big pharma funded looking for a dime? Are they going to make the most money from a botanical derived therapy, or one of the biologics?

There is so much opportunity for corruption in science in addition to innocent human error. Numbers are easily recorded incorrectly, purposely or not, unknown variables influence results, and statistics are often skewed in favor of one idea or another. Experimental design is also a factor- whst variables are included, which aren't, etc. Sample sites are purposely selected for abnormal qualities to enhance whatever viewpoint the scientists have.

Add to this the current climate of the scientific community. In order for publication, papers must go through the peer review process. This means like minded individuals must approve your work, and if it is counter to their opinion why would they approve it? This perpetuates any existing ideals, whether correct or not. Contrary opinions are laughed out of office.

Yes, scientists do occasionally get busted for falsifying publications. But what percent really gets caught, especially when it is in favor of the majorities opinion?

Green energy is a hoax. The amount of materials, labor, transportation cost (yup those windmills are made in factories and transpored on semis) and industrial waste produced by green energy sources is absurd. Efficiency for solar panels plummets after a few years, and what to do with all the old panels who've lost efficiency? Toxic Electric car batteries? What about the ecological impact of windmills and solar panels? How much heat is produced on a solar panel farm, that was previously a forest clear-cut to a black, heat absorbing farm? The noise disturbance of windmills?

There is no simple solution. Nuclear energy is the best we have, but fear mongering agendas have ruined the nuclear name.

In any case, we are observing change in the planet. Earths climate has always, and always will, change.
The question is, how much change have we driven?

Take coral for example. There have been 6 mass extinctions for the animals in recorded history, and we are supposedly in the 7th. If this doesn't demonstrate the volatility of earths past climate I dont know what would convince you.

Ocean acidification, caused by increased CO2, is another leading concern for reefs. An acidified ocean affects calcification rates in organisms like coral, crabs, etc. But how much does the pH need to drop to influence this? Is this the reason for the 7th extinction? Dramatically more acidic conditions are needed than we are experiencing to cause real issues . Will we reach the point where we face a major problem for this? Maybe in the future. But I don't envision any degree of change in terms of energy consumption, so what is the solution?

Increased CO2 also increases plant vegetative growth. Why is it that our trees are not buffering this increase in atmospheric CO2? Supposedly other limiting factors. I remain unconvinced by the limited and biased studies.

I'm not sure the difference gaseous CO2 had made in terms of temperature change. But you know what i know for a fact has made a change on the earth?

Single use plastics. The millions of plastic bottles. The chemical detergents we wash out the drain, the medicines we piss out every day that bioaccumulate in mussel communities on the coast, which we then consume. We haven't even begun to understand the irreversible impact of these things.


I've lost the energy to type any further. But hopefully this is some food for thought. I am neither a climate change believer or denier. I just know that we are doing things much worse for the immediate future than releasing CO2.
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Amen @JoeR.
Well said, and I appreciate every word.
Thank you for taking the time to say that little bit.

All I want to say in reply, is that my viewpoint is not one of "pro-pollution"....but I think you know that.
 
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