Genus study - Amelanchier aka "Serviceberries"

[Leo in N E Illinois]

You may be right . I have added soil normally not just on top but in the rootball and fertilizer and done the put some roots in bags of soil in similar small amount of growing medium before with some measurable success . But only with conifers not being used to the species and unsure how drastic I can reduce roots to collect . I figured if I’m going to wait till next spring can’t hurt to try and help the plant this year . I’ve never collected mid summer unless you think it is safe . Fall collection had a higher rate of failure for me most likely because of my cold winter storage so I stick to spring but I’m open to suggestions for summer

There is planned collecting, done with ideal timing in mind. And there is "unplanned collecting", where the timing is poor to awful. I have collected at various times of year all manner of trees. Well planned collecting in late winter or early spring usually has a 75% to 98 % success rate. Collecting at any other time of year, my success rate, regardless of species have varied wildly. Realize, if I only collect a single tree at a specific time, and it dies, then my success rate for collecting at that time of year is zero %.

Over all, I would say my success rate drops dramatically as I moved away from the ideal time of late winter or early spring. My June success rate is pretty close to zero, maybe 5%. My August-September success rate comes up to maybe 60%, especially with protecting newly collected trees from winter cold in a well house.

So out of season collecting is rarely a 0 % success, there are better seasons, and there are "best seasons".

 

[Frozentreehugger]

There is planned collecting, done with ideal timing in mind. And there is "unplanned collecting", where the timing is poor to awful. I have collected at various times of year all manner of trees. Well planned collecting in late winter or early spring usually has a 75% to 98 % success rate. Collecting at any other time of year, my success rate, regardless of species have varied wildly. Realize, if I only collect a single tree at a specific time, and it dies, then my success rate for collecting at that time of year is zero %.

Over all, I would say my success rate drops dramatically as I moved away from the ideal time of late winter or early spring. My June success rate is pretty close to zero, maybe 5%. My August-September success rate comes up to maybe 60%, especially with protecting newly collected trees from winter cold in a well house.

So out of season collecting is rarely a 0 % success, there are better seasons, and there are "best seasons".

Pretty much same with me . But only serious attempt was a hemlock in September failed . Any summer collection only out of ie landscape plant offered but had to go then . I think I had one success and it struggled . Even this year late spring . Attempt to save a white cedar . Road kill If I am honest the tree is dead but I’ll water it some more . Tree was side of the housing development they ripped out a old hedge . I thought there was a chance . No idea how long it was there but I got some roots trimmed the broken top off And hope it had rained that day . But a month later all the foliage is brown Like I said summer I scout trim trees and might do some field root help but early spring is collection time need all the time they can get before there first winter is my theory

 

[Gabler]

… need all the time they can get before there first winter is my theory

That’s especially true in your climate.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

That’s especially true in your climate.

Considering a root heat system for winter storage . My trees go in a un heated un attached building so they freeze . Some people claim to have success heating the root zone above freezing while the tree is frozen claiming roots still grow . This comes from people that collect in the fall . I’m thinking a large box filled with turface heating cables for frozen pipes in the turface and just bury the pots or boxes in the turface . Just for trees collected that spring for there first winter

 

[HorseloverFat]

This is exactly what I struggle with for coniferous spring collection..

When I NEED to dig them.. the ground is still frozen.

I can get on the late end of the window for most temperate species, though. It's hard to imagine spring-collection of conifers anywhere colder than my climate.

 

[Gabler]

This is exactly what I struggle with for coniferous spring collection..

When I NEED to dig them.. the ground is still frozen.

I can get on the late end of the window for most temperate species, though. It's hard to imagine spring-collection of conifers anywhere colder than my climate.

Bonsai has made me realize how great zone 7 is. We get enough snowfall that it feels like a real winter, but the soil itself doesn’t really freeze. Just a thin surface layer of frozen mud over top of wet mud. I used to hate that it gets so muddy in the winter, but it’s great for bonsai that my pots only freeze solid if left on benches. I can keep cold-lovers like red maples out on benches, and I can protect trees with sensitive roots like beeches simply by setting them on the ground amidst some straw.

The drawback is that everything freezes at night and thaws during the day, so terra cotta pots really don’t work outside at all.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

This is exactly what I struggle with for coniferous spring collection..

When I NEED to dig them.. the ground is still frozen.

I can get on the late end of the window for most temperate species, though. It's hard to imagine spring-collection of conifers anywhere colder than my climate.

Bro the best time to collect in the spring is just as buds are starting to swell or just before . Diciid trees bud first so collect them early . Conifers bud latter so there is no need to dig them out of frozen ground . There is some leeway with both species . But diced first then conifers . I don’t think your going to hurt your chances with conifers if your earlier but it’s not necessary . My main experience is with hemlock white cedar and needle juniper conifers are slower to respond then diced survival is more about amount of roots and carefull after care . But all conifers like light so there can be a sink or swim moment . Hemlock and cedar can both recover in a fair bit of shade and love to be misted

 

[Kanorin]

@HorseloverFat Some people in my club collect conifers in South Dakota I think last week of April into first half of May with good success.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

@HorseloverFat Some people in my club collect conifers in South Dakota I think last week of April into first half of May with good success.

Depends a lot on elevation even in the south there is snow in the mountains and spring is latter . . Personally I think there is not enough thought as to where the aftercare is example you collect in the mountains when it’s spring there and then bring it down to instant summer May be why some collect in the fall . But up north winter is to hard on them so spring is the time I don’t have mountain experience but nastiest I have done was north shore cliff of the St Lawrence river Quebec near the east coast was just above freezing raining in a cold wind first week of June we went for larch I collected a complete ready made bonsai white cedar rock pocket at edge of cliff semi cascade all I did was shorten the cascade had incredible dwarf foliage that could not be maintained but was a great tree

 

[HorseloverFat]

Bro the best time to collect in the spring is just as buds are starting to swell or just before . Diciid trees bud first so collect them early . Conifers bud latter so there is no need to dig them out of frozen ground . There is some leeway with both species . But diced first then conifers . I don’t think your going to hurt your chances with conifers if your earlier but it’s not necessary . My main experience is with hemlock white cedar and needle juniper conifers are slower to respond then diced survival is more about amount of roots and carefull after care . But all conifers like light so there can be a sink or swim moment . Hemlock and cedar can both recover in a fair bit of shade and love to be misted

Yes, agreed.. the BEST time to collect anything is spring.

My climate is weird... conifers wake up at almost the same time as EARLY deciduous.... and the ground, near me... not necessarily inland, is still frozen... I think it may have to do with the peninsula and bay areas.

I have a TEENY spring collection window.. MUCH larger if I start in EARLY autumn.. when the EARLY decs first start to lose their leaves...
Protection over winter is "the bear", though, so my Autumn success is not ideal.

 

[HorseloverFat]

@HorseloverFat Some people in my club collect conifers in South Dakota I think last week of April into first half of May with good success.

Interesting... Are the trees initiating new growth?.. like coniferous "bud-break"?

 

[Kanorin]

Interesting... Are the trees initiating new growth?.. like coniferous "bud-break"?

They are up between 4500 to 5500 feet in elevation (far western SD) collecting mainly ponderosa, RMJ, and black hills spruce. Not sure if the conifer buds are pushing at that time, I can ask.

 

[Kanorin]

According to them, ideally right before or during bud swell is best for pines and spruce. Junipers do ok being collected much later in the season. Back to serviceberries!

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I plan on collecting at least one service berries maybe 2 in the spring I’ve been lax in getting back to them may cut a couple others back . I don’t think drastic like a trunk chop but a heavy pruning see what happens Wondering how well they could be to air layer . Some I have found may be non collectable out of rock cracks but interesting part may be layered

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Wintering trees is always an issue. If the serviceberry is native to your immediate county, just set it in the shade, ON THE GROUND, it will be fine. It only needs a small amount of mulch applied AFTER the ground surface freezes. If you mulch too soon, mice and varmints move in and chew up your trees over winter.

Winter shade prevents sun scald. Serviceberry are incredibly hardy, I've never lost fine twigs with zero protection and I am growing Appalachian species in Illinois. Just SET 'EM DOWN on DA GROUND.. I'm thinkin of the rap tune about it by Owen Reich with Bjorn some years ago.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Leo not saying your wrong . As I have always said what works for winter protection works and don’t mess with it . But I learned the hard way not to winter trees outside . There are people that do successfullyhere . But I think it’s riskier . Bottom line trees with frozen roots are Easily desiccated in this zone . Conifers are more at risk . Add the rodent risk . And I have strong beliefs about freeze thaw cycles being bad for trees . I have a non heated non attached building ( old garage ) so I use it . I delay putting them away until there well frozen no light . Give them some fresh air on moderate days in winter with door open . Evict the rodents protect trees from rodents ( dryer sheets ) and traps Leave them well enough into spring that they come out and thaw and stay Thawed . Best I can come up with with my situation idea is control as many variables as possible . . This last winter we had considerable low snow fall a lot of damage to landscape plants that normally survive damage is wind for plants sticking out of the snow . If putting them on the ground works for people the. Do it . But I would think about rodents and wind snow is a good insulator for pots . But freeze thaw and ice forming not so much for twigs and young buds that are expecting to be in the air . Bonsai has given me a new respect for the climate USDA zones a lot goes into there calculation . Even 1/2 a zone is a major difference . Going both ways . Cold loving trees thrive in zone 4 Ottawa and sulk in the heat of zone 5 Toronto .

 

[Kanorin]

I did some pruning and branch selection on my two serviceberries in August. Less than 30% of the total foliage mass. There are some species which will produce another flush of growth after this kind of work at this time in my climate (trident maples, red maples, most elms, hop hornbeam). The serviceberries did not respond to this pruning with new shoots, but I do see some inner buds plumping up.

In the future, I'm going to try doing a single round of pruning for ramification after the first flush has hardened off - probably late April or early May. This timing will probably be good for preserving future years' flower buds as well.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Here’s one I have picked out to collect next. Spring found early summer this year . Growing in a thin layer of soil on top of and beside a outcrop of granite has some real nice aged bark at the base . Unfortunately the roots are all one sided . It got my usual pre collection treatment . A slow release fert spike bear the trunk base and a 50/50 mixture of DE and Rich garden soil near the trunk to stimulate growth . No roots trimmed slightly scared of drying it out in thin soil conditions

 

[Kanorin]

Repotted my “Autumn Brilliance” nursery stock Amelanchier. Unfortunately, uncovering the base uncovered a major area of reverse taper. I’m thinking I may need to slice off this little side tuber (blue line).

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Repotted my “Autumn Brilliance” nursery stock Amelanchier. Unfortunately, uncovering the base uncovered a major area of reverse taper. I’m thinking I may need to slice off this little side tuber (blue line).View attachment 475924

Why not let it grow to thicken the trunk . Help the reverse taper