So I purchased a couple gambel oaks at a local nursery a few weeks back. Has anybody been working with this species? I saw on bonsai4me that some of the european oaks are better repotted in mid july through september. Can the same be said for the gambel?
Gambel oak question
- Thread starter dkraft81
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RKatzin
Omono
Hi Dusty, there's not alot of us 'Oakers' out there in the bonsai world so responses are few and far between. I have several varieties in growth at the present, but I would have to be guessing on the Gambel.
Generally speaking, oaks is oaks and there's not alot of difference between them and they often intermingle and hybridize. The Gambel is most closely related to E. White Oak, Quercus alba, but again my books are covering western trees and the Q. alba is only mentioned as a relative of the Gambel.
I have several Or. Whites, aka, "Garry Oak", Q. garryana ready to be dug out and boxed and a nice bunch of Pin Oak I've done a couple of chops on to get them down to potting size ready to go. I have some English Oak, Q. robur, a dozen saplings just getting their leggs under them and a clutch of California Live Oaks, aka, Coast Live Oak, Q. agrifolia that's more like a holly than an oak, I'm setting out in a forest together.
One that I have my heart set on, and have made a few attempts at and now know I was playing in the wrong ball park, is the Golden Chinkapin, aka, Giant Chinkapin or Goldenleaf Chestnut, Casanopsis chrysophylla. It is not a Quercus, but is the tree that the Chinkapin Oak, Q. muehlenbergii resembles and is named after. The big difference is the leaves on the Castanopsis are golden haired on the bottom. You have to see a grove of these in the breeze as they flash from green to gold to really see the effect.
All oaks are pretty slow growers and are best planted out for several years of free range growing to get some trunk under them. They are long haul projects for the most part, back burner stuff while you play with your other trees. Best of luck, Rick
Generally speaking, oaks is oaks and there's not alot of difference between them and they often intermingle and hybridize. The Gambel is most closely related to E. White Oak, Quercus alba, but again my books are covering western trees and the Q. alba is only mentioned as a relative of the Gambel.
I have several Or. Whites, aka, "Garry Oak", Q. garryana ready to be dug out and boxed and a nice bunch of Pin Oak I've done a couple of chops on to get them down to potting size ready to go. I have some English Oak, Q. robur, a dozen saplings just getting their leggs under them and a clutch of California Live Oaks, aka, Coast Live Oak, Q. agrifolia that's more like a holly than an oak, I'm setting out in a forest together.
One that I have my heart set on, and have made a few attempts at and now know I was playing in the wrong ball park, is the Golden Chinkapin, aka, Giant Chinkapin or Goldenleaf Chestnut, Casanopsis chrysophylla. It is not a Quercus, but is the tree that the Chinkapin Oak, Q. muehlenbergii resembles and is named after. The big difference is the leaves on the Castanopsis are golden haired on the bottom. You have to see a grove of these in the breeze as they flash from green to gold to really see the effect.
All oaks are pretty slow growers and are best planted out for several years of free range growing to get some trunk under them. They are long haul projects for the most part, back burner stuff while you play with your other trees. Best of luck, Rick
Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
I do not have gambel oak but have several live oak and I did major root work and chops on them April-May here in TX and all responded well.
PaulH
Omono
I always re-pot my oaks in the spring too with this exception: http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?5599-Quercus-agrifolia-progression
I would expect that if you do re- pot a decidous oak in the summer you should defoliate it first.
I would expect that if you do re- pot a decidous oak in the summer you should defoliate it first.
RKatzin
Omono
That's a grand oak Paul! In August, too. Just shows what they can take. I've seen ones that were uprooted by loggers, decapitated and run over and come back the next spring with a head of new growth.
There are many oak on our new site. Some kingd of high ele. evergreen scrub oak, live oak hybrid maybe, but tons of honker trunks all mangled and twisted. I can hardly wait to dig into some of those! Thanks for the oaken inspiration. Rick
There are many oak on our new site. Some kingd of high ele. evergreen scrub oak, live oak hybrid maybe, but tons of honker trunks all mangled and twisted. I can hardly wait to dig into some of those! Thanks for the oaken inspiration. Rick
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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I've been following Ted Matson's advice on my experiments with oaks. Repot only after the new growth for the year has hardened off, July well into summer, as late as end of August. Seems to give good results. Oaks are one of the last trees to wake up in spring, if you use a "spring repot" rule, you might repot these too early. This may be the reason for the summer repotting suggestion. Basically, Ted suggests working on oaks only once a year, in middle of summer, do all the repotting, pruning, everything, then leave them alone until next year. Somewhat like what Vance Wood tells us to do with Mugo Pines. Ted did say wiring in winter is fine. But all major work should be done during active growth, in middle of summer. This may change for those of you in brutal hot summer climates like Texas, where your trees go dormant in summer. Think about where you live - before you take my advise. I live where it snows every winter. My summers are not very hot. Ted also suggested not repotting oaks every year. Try to let them go 3 to 5 years between repotting. They may survive repotting more often, but they seem to sulk the growing season after repotting. Best to keep long intervals between repotting if you want good growth out of them.
Right now I am in year two with 3 seedling Quercus macrocarpa - Burr oak. I purchased them as 2 year old whips. I decided to start with young trees, as oaks are said to be fairly difficult to collect. With young material, at least I have the entire root system.
Burr Oak is native to my area, they came through my bitter cold winter with minimal protection. Just set the pots on the ground, in the shade, they came through -17 F, no problems. Leaves are very large. The plan is to let them grow until they are 5 or more feet tall, then chop back. Grow out and chop - repeat, repeat. Burr oak should trunk up and bark up within a decade or two with this sort of treatment. I believe leaf size will always be a problem, but once I have 2 or more levels of ramification I'm sure leaf size will come down. I plan on this being one of my winter and early spring trees. Hide it the rest of the year.
I had several failed attempts with live oaks and cork oaks. My wintering set up just didn't work out for them. I did keep one cork oak going for 5 years. It responded well to the hard summer chop back - it back budded very nicely. I also limited my repotting to July - and that seemed to work. My winter storage was too wet, and they got too cold before being put into winter storage - and that is why they perished. My locally native oak seems to tolerate winter much better.
Right now I am in year two with 3 seedling Quercus macrocarpa - Burr oak. I purchased them as 2 year old whips. I decided to start with young trees, as oaks are said to be fairly difficult to collect. With young material, at least I have the entire root system.
Burr Oak is native to my area, they came through my bitter cold winter with minimal protection. Just set the pots on the ground, in the shade, they came through -17 F, no problems. Leaves are very large. The plan is to let them grow until they are 5 or more feet tall, then chop back. Grow out and chop - repeat, repeat. Burr oak should trunk up and bark up within a decade or two with this sort of treatment. I believe leaf size will always be a problem, but once I have 2 or more levels of ramification I'm sure leaf size will come down. I plan on this being one of my winter and early spring trees. Hide it the rest of the year.
I had several failed attempts with live oaks and cork oaks. My wintering set up just didn't work out for them. I did keep one cork oak going for 5 years. It responded well to the hard summer chop back - it back budded very nicely. I also limited my repotting to July - and that seemed to work. My winter storage was too wet, and they got too cold before being put into winter storage - and that is why they perished. My locally native oak seems to tolerate winter much better.
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Hi Dusty; the last few days I've been haunting the Oak threads and I'm a fan as well. From what I've seen here it seems a lot of oaks can be cut way back and regrow with the caveat that I'd be sure the root system was strong and healthy first. Don't worry much about your species. If the leaves don't reduce well just grow a larger tree. look up the Anson Burlingame Daimyo Oak that is at a big collection in CA. These normally have huge leaves but this tree looks very good with the reduction that's been achieved and the larger tree size.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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About chopping back, the tree needs to be healthy and vigorous before a chop back, or trunk chop. Don't repot and trunk chop the same year. If repotted in 2014, I most likely would not do the trunk chop until 2016, give it a year ormore to build vigor and strength. But then when chopped, they respond very well, many back buds will pop. At least in my limited experience, this is what I am planning to do in my ''short summer'' zone 5 growing zone. Those of you in California and other mild climates can get away with being much, much more aggressive with your trees. Here our growing season is short, and one needs to give things more time to recover from repotting and other stresses.
Pretty happy I found this thread.
Having one English oak collected this spring I deal with what to do with this tree. The bark is quite good, but the trunk is slim and straight. Thinking about air-layering next year or chopping it after two seasons. Maybe...if I had some lower branches.
Having one English oak collected this spring I deal with what to do with this tree. The bark is quite good, but the trunk is slim and straight. Thinking about air-layering next year or chopping it after two seasons. Maybe...if I had some lower branches.
GGB
Masterpiece
Pachycaul
Mame
Where I am in NM, Q. gambelli is a common tree. I have found it difficult to collect though, due to its habit of spreading by root suckering. There are invariably two large cuts to be made, the 'upstream' and 'downstream' sides of the traveler root. That, plus a paucity of fine feeders has left me 0'fer after several attempts. Also, reading this post, maybe attempting too early in the year. My answer was to obtain a 7 gal. nursery stock Gambel shown in the thread "Show Us Your Quercus (pre) Bonsai." It is a backbudding monster. All went well till it got some serious clobbering by nickel and quarter sized hail @ the end of August. It back buds extremely well, unlike some other oaks. I also am working with another Gambel yardadori that I have just been improving feeder roots and leaving it in place. Will chop the trunk next spring, as midsummer here everything stops till it cools back down.
barrosinc
Masterpiece
Do you still have this oak? were you able to get buds lower or did you airlayer?
Yes, I still have it. This spring I broke off all terminal buds to make it bud back. The response was not as good as expected. I received only few buds on old wood (trunk) and they slept all the season. They may break and grow next season. But I'm tempted to chop the tree by half. Or maybe air-layer? But I'm not sure there's something worth to get from the process that will cause one lost season. Decisions, decisions...
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Also could notch and add bends to trunk
. Oak layering not sure thing. Could kill upper tree in effort.
. Oak layering not sure thing. Could kill upper tree in effort.
