Fungal Issues across the board. Any help would be great.

[sorce]

Sooooo.......

Everytime I see one of your posts, I think, damn, that was a lot of work real fast, and they always seem thin.

I never say anything because it already happened, and so long as they're living, right?

I fell into this trap too. Too heavy of a styling too fast. It's what led to this slow program I've been incorporating lately. The one where I see this fantastic piece of tree, slowly building good branching. Slowly prepping to style. Yet Wireme still can't see what it will be. This is how I've learned to win, at home. No need for a false win here. We'll get to banging ass wins in a few years.

For the record, even when I watch Bjorn or Ryan style a tree I think wow, too much too fast. You NEVER saw them do that in Japan, but get em over here and it's like the "demo death" just creeps its way back in. They have learned Bonsai well. But when is Monk Class? Much is NOT taught.

You are not the only one infected. I didn't want look up effected or affected so infected will do!

The trouble with this, as you are experiencing, is as soon as our schedule, environment, etc, gets bumped out just a little...(see CONFUSION), Pests, climate change, whatever, everything goes to shit.

If they say one move a year, make it 3/4. That extra 1/4 makes up for this BS. Allows us leeway.

As one of the most artistically minded folks here, I want to see your trees impressing us in years. Never again straight away. Never ever ever ever so thin.

You are too good to not allow yourself these preventions.

Sorce

 

[Hartinez]

Sooooo.......

Everytime I see one of your posts, I think, damn, that was a lot of work real fast, and they always seem thin.

I never say anything because it already happened, and so long as they're living, right?

I fell into this trap too. Too heavy of a styling too fast. It's what led to this slow program I've been incorporating lately. The one where I see this fantastic piece of tree, slowly building good branching. Slowly prepping to style. Yet Wireme still can't see what it will be. This is how I've learned to win, at home. No need for a false win here. We'll get to banging ass wins in a few years.

For the record, even when I watch Bjorn or Ryan style a tree I think wow, too much too fast. You NEVER saw them do that in Japan, but get em over here and it's like the "demo death" just creeps its way back in. They have learned Bonsai well. But when is Monk Class? Much is NOT taught.

You are not the only one infected. I didn't want look up effected or affected so infected will do!

The trouble with this, as you are experiencing, is as soon as our schedule, environment, etc, gets bumped out just a little...(see CONFUSION), Pests, climate change, whatever, everything goes to shit.

If they say one move a year, make it 3/4. That extra 1/4 makes up for this BS. Allows us leeway.

As one of the most artistically minded folks here, I want to see your trees impressing us in years. Never again straight away. Never ever ever ever so thin.

You are too good to not allow yourself these preventions.

Sorce

Thanks for saying Sorce. My artistic mind def pushes my Hort mind to the side too often causing death. But a few of the trees pictured, in particular the shimpaku. Saw no major foliage reduction this year. Only a simple and relatively non aggressive repot into good substrate. The spruce and fir are disheartening, however they are still covered in viable buds and I’m hopeful that both will pull through. For me the big annoyance are my deciduous showing so many signs of stress. Most saw no major foliage or root reduction and have been small for several years and have always been massively vigorous. I’m really thinking my schedule and moves have really fucked with my trees. I’ve been a bit off emotional on a personal side lately and it’s like my trees are reflecting my attitude and energy.

 

[sorce]

it’s like my trees are reflecting my attitude and energy.

It's gotta suck...I been dreading a known 18momtj move, Can't imagine 2 in one year. One season shit!

How do we cheer you up?

Cuz you are damn right they are reflecting you emotions.

Best thing about that, is I see buds.

Which means you should already have been feeling better.

It is hard to control, allow patience, for our need to produce beautiful. Win with us with other creations!
We can not remove that need to win, so we must replace it with something else. For me, pottery and accent plants. And that one tree worth showing!

Sorce

 

[cmeg1]

Ok...
Is it this maxsea? Cannot find 10-10-10z
Sumos look nice.....very organic approach.
I would master one or the other.
I see no sence in mixing the max sea with organic sumo’s.
Assuming max sea is phospherous salts instead.
This seems excess nitrogen really!!!
Sumos ,max sea and fish...I believe its overkill and possibly conflicting forms of fertilizer making lockout along with excess.
If you give me the labels I can help .
I took a very thourough class on this stuff.
Do not be intimidated by a nutrient makeover

 

[Hartinez]

Ok...
Is it this maxsea? Cannot find 10-10-10z
Sumos look nice.....very organic approach.
I would master one or the other.
I see no sence in mixing the max sea with organic sumo’s.
Assuming max sea is phospherous salts instead.
This seems excess nitrogen really!!!
Sumos ,max sea and fish...I believe its overkill and possibly conflicting forms of fertilizer making lockout along with excess.
If you give me the labels I can help .
I took a very thourough class on this stuff.
Do not be intimidated by a nutrient makeover✌View attachment 325427View attachment 325428

Yes it is that Maxsea. Amazing help From you all, thank you. Really appreciate your input Curt. I would love some advice in the fert realm. I’ll snap a few photos here in a bit.

 

[sorce]

This seems excess nitrogen really!!

This makes sense as I feel the tissues produced with excess N are more susceptible to heat.

Sorce

 

[cmeg1]

Yes it is that Maxsea. Amazing help From you all, thank you. Really appreciate your input Curt. I would love some advice in the fert realm. I’ll snap a few photos here in a bit.

Cool I’m going away today,but I will come up with a user freindly regime after I see your labels(contents/derivatives) of fertilizer......also need soil components and water source

 

[Colorado]

I don’t think it is out of the question that the symptoms were triggered by physical damage to the foliage and roots during your moves. No matter how careful we are when moving, the trees are still going to go over bumps, potholes in the road, etc which I think can cause some minor damage to the root system. Then the watering balance is off and all downhill from there.

If you do want to treat for fungus, many Rocky Mountain Bonsai Society practitioners from our area of the country use Mancozeb for just about everything. I was just talking about this with some guys this past weekend. We’re seeing a lot of phytopthora on junipers this year (luckily I’ve been spared of fungus this year) but I haven’t really heard of anyone having a garden-wide fungal issue caused by one pathogen.

Best of luck man, I know that must be stressful.

 

[Hartinez]

I don’t think it is out of the question that the symptoms were triggered by physical damage to the foliage and roots during your moves. No matter how careful we are when moving, the trees are still going to go over bumps, potholes in the road, etc which I think can cause some minor damage to the root system. Then the watering balance is off and all downhill from there.

If you do want to treat for fungus, many Rocky Mountain Bonsai Society practitioners from our area of the country use Mancozeb for just about everything. I was just talking about this with some guys this past weekend. We’re seeing a lot of phytopthora on junipers this year (luckily I’ve been spared of fungus this year) but I haven’t really heard of anyone having a garden-wide fungal issue caused by one pathogen.

Best of luck man, I know that must be stressful.

Thanks TJ. Yeah man it’s definitely weighing. This hobby/art is what I make for myself. I sell all of my other creations and while I absolutely love doing that, Bonsai is MY thing. So while going through all this dam isolation my one release is struggling. This too shall pass.

It's gotta suck...I been dreading a known 18momtj move, Can't imagine 2 in one year. One season shit!

How do we cheer you up?

Cuz you are damn right they are reflecting you emotions.

Sorce

im such an extrovert, people person. I normally am doing weekly or bi-weekly artist events and fairs where I sell and talk about my work and meet new people. To make all of my moves and selling my house less of a burden, I had planned on flying my ass to the national show this year, but you know. I miss people and faces and conversations and social beers. It’s all fucking with me a bit. Paired with my kids having to school from home and just being here all day every day it’s a mess (which I think you can relate). Was really looking forward to meeting some like minded Nut heads in Rochester this fall. Next year. Breathe.

 

[sorce]

Breathe

Amen! And breathe on them trees.

The other day, some dick was talking shit to my YouTube Potter about mouth breathing, (I actually learned how this is detrimental to brain health recently, a cause of stupid, not a symptom) but sometimes all a pot needs to stay workable is a little humid breath. So fuck that guy. We mouth breath every now and then for art!

Anyway, that CO2 is good for them.

Sorce

 

[Smoke]

Fungus is about prevention....not cure. The trick is to not get it at all. That can only happen with rigorous prevention in the winter and making sure spring starts out fungus free. That will only happen with dormant disease control in the winter. Dilute lime sulpher is a pain in the ass but it how I managed my problem.

 

[Hartinez]

Fungus is about prevention....not cure. The trick is to not get it at all. That can only happen with rigorous prevention in the winter and making sure spring starts out fungus free. That will only happen with dormant disease control in the winter. Dilute lime sulpher is a pain in the ass but it how I managed my problem.

Thanks Al. I had planned on using a dormant spray of lime sulphur this year, but my local garden center no longer sells it and I need to come up with a different dormant solution for next year, or my shit will continue to be shit.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Just for the hell of it, I take a spray bottle and fill it with water.
Then I spray Daconil into the water until it.....j u s t......turns blue-ish.
I spray everything when buds start. Never in the evening though.
I keep it up as the leaves develop and grow. Less and less then stop.
So far, it has stopped my oak mildew and all other fungus stuff.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@Leo in N E Illinois @Wires_Guy_wires could really use you guys at the moment. Trying not to freak out over all of this.

Sorry, I did not see this yesterday.

You have gotten excellent advice from many people.

Your photos look like my pre-bonsai on the farm. I live in northern Illinois, 3 miles from the IL-WI border, and 6 miles from currently in the news Kenosha, WI. The family farm is near South Haven, Michigan, or west of Kalamazoo Michigan, a full 188 miles away. I keep a bunch of trees in early phases of development in Anderson flats and nursery containers on the farm. They are all potted in containers large enough that they can easily go 4 or 5 days between watering. Spring, most of early Summer and Autumn, natural rainfall is frequent enough that I rarely have to worry about watering them. There is usually a brief drought in summer, where I have to get up there to water them. This year, for various reasons I was unable to do so. Your trees and my trees on the farm are remarkably similar. What is amazing, none of the trees were dead, despite not getting water when they needed it. I was there over the weekend, and gave everything a good soak.

I would say that your trees are suffering a combo of heat stress, and or drought stress. The droughts may have been brief, hours rather than days, but combined with the extraordinary heat you have been experiencing, and the resulting low humidities, I believe the majority of damage you see is basically, heat and brief drought stress.

If you have a fungus issue, I think it is opportunistic, coming in on the heals of the heat and drought stress. I doubt that a single pathogen is affecting all your trees, for most it is just drought, heat, hydraulic stress. But as a preventative, I would hit your trees with one of several products. I like Cleary's 3336, or its Bonide generic equivalent. Good broad spectrum systemic control & supposedly does not harm mycorrhiza. It is also unlikely to result in fungicide resistance. Mancozeb and Daconil are two others that have good broad spectrum effects. Neem is good as a topical spray.

So I would do a general prophylactic application of one of the products mentioned. Then in autumn as the weather cools, a second application, then over the winter follow Smoke's advice and do a dilute lime-sulfur spray.

When your life settles down to a more consistent pattern, your trees will pick up in health. As Sorce mentioned, pushing trees to their horticultural limit, is fraught with the danger that a natural event, like prolonged 100+F weather, can tip the balance of the trees into a downward spiral. I try to never have my spruce look "too sparse" or if I do bring them to "sparse" I only do so once every 5 years or so. Similar with pines. That freshly pluck to the edge of death look that you see done with Japanese black pine is not good in a climate with extreme weather, extreme heat coming. A JBP may really need more than 5 needles on a branch to keep it alive. You might be able to get away with it once in a while, but pushing plants really hard is risky, if unforeseen events should come along.

So relax, I don't think you have a major fungus outbreak, but do treat in case some fungus is moving in opportunistically. Otherwise just try to keep up on water. Lay off the fertilizer until after the heat stress season is over.

Hopefully you won't loose anything . Next year they will recover.

 

[Hartinez]

Sorry, I did not see this yesterday.

You have gotten excellent advice from many people.

Your photos look like my pre-bonsai on the farm. I live in northern Illinois, 3 miles from the IL-WI border, and 6 miles from currently in the news Kenosha, WI. The family farm is near South Haven, Michigan, or west of Kalamazoo Michigan, a full 188 miles away. I keep a bunch of trees in early phases of development in Anderson flats and nursery containers on the farm. They are all potted in containers large enough that they can easily go 4 or 5 days between watering. Spring, most of early Summer and Autumn, natural rainfall is frequent enough that I rarely have to worry about watering them. There is usually a brief drought in summer, where I have to get up there to water them. This year, for various reasons I was unable to do so. Your trees and my trees on the farm are remarkably similar. What is amazing, none of the trees were dead, despite not getting water when they needed it. I was there over the weekend, and gave everything a good soak.

I would say that your trees are suffering a combo of heat stress, and or drought stress. The droughts may have been brief, hours rather than days, but combined with the extraordinary heat you have been experiencing, and the resulting low humidities, I believe the majority of damage you see is basically, heat and brief drought stress.

If you have a fungus issue, I think it is opportunistic, coming in on the heals of the heat and drought stress. I doubt that a single pathogen is affecting all your trees, for most it is just drought, heat, hydraulic stress. But as a preventative, I would hit your trees with one of several products. I like Cleary's 3336, or its Bonide generic equivalent. Good broad spectrum systemic control & supposedly does not harm mycorrhiza. It is also unlikely to result in fungicide resistance. Mancozeb and Daconil are two others that have good broad spectrum effects. Neem is good as a topical spray.

So I would do a general prophylactic application of one of the products mentioned. Then in autumn as the weather cools, a second application, then over the winter follow Smoke's advice and do a dilute lime-sulfur spray.

When your life settles down to a more consistent pattern, your trees will pick up in health. As Sorce mentioned, pushing trees to their horticultural limit, is fraught with the danger that a natural event, like prolonged 100+F weather, can tip the balance of the trees into a downward spiral. I try to never have my spruce look "too sparse" or if I do bring them to "sparse" I only do so once every 5 years or so. Similar with pines. That freshly pluck to the edge of death look that you see done with Japanese black pine is not good in a climate with extreme weather, extreme heat coming. A JBP may really need more than 5 needles on a branch to keep it alive. You might be able to get away with it once in a while, but pushing plants really hard is risky, if unforeseen events should come along.

So relax, I don't think you have a major fungus outbreak, but do treat in case some fungus is moving in opportunistically. Otherwise just try to keep up on water. Lay off the fertilizer until after the heat stress season is over.

Hopefully you won't loose anything . Next year they will recover.

Thanks for the response Leo. Was having a bit of an emotional crisis last week! . Feeling good moving forward though and all of these great responses have helped calm my nerves. The one I was most concerned for was my double trunk englemann. But as I continue to check, the buds that developed this year are still viable and have not dried out at all. I’m hopeful with proper care, watering and treatment it’ll bounce back. This forum is so great.

in the mean time I went to what brings me calm and a skill set I can control more. I made another stand the other day! My 3rd stand now and they just keep looking better. On a side note, can I assume no Abq for you this year?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Thanks for the response Leo. Was having a bit of an emotional crisis last week! . Feeling good moving forward though and all of these great responses have helped calm my nerves. The one I was most concerned for was my double trunk englemann. But as I continue to check, the buds that developed this year are still viable and have not dried out at all. I’m hopeful with proper care, watering and treatment it’ll bounce back. This forum is so great.

in the mean time I went to what brings me calm and a skill set I can control more. I made another stand the other day! My 3rd stand now and they just keep looking better. On a side note, can I assume no Abq for you this year?

Yep, Covid 19 cancelled ny ABQ plans, I need to check in with niece about her plans for next year.

 

[stubmle]

@Hartinez Would you be willing to update this thread with a report of what happened in the time since?

You mentioned in Fidur's thread that you're pretty sure it was ultimately a water quality problem, but I'd be interested in hearing more details about it in case I run into similar issues.