Front and main branch selection for Hawthorn

[tstrum]

I recently purchased a Washington Hawthorn from a bonsai nursery that had obtained the tree from an artist who passed away. The tree is quite impressive and well into it's development stage. But as this tree passes to me, I want to help it become the best tree it can be. In spending some time looking at the tree from various angles and viewpoints, I think I have found the best front based on the trunk line and nebari. But this front does create a few issues in terms of branch primary branch selection and development.

Front




A few other pics with some better lighting




Here are the design challenges, that I would like to ask for some advice on.



First, the red circle. That branch is too thick and points directly at the viewer. My hesitation with just removing it is that this will leave my first two levels of branches are completely "barred". The primary branch (red square), the branch exactly opposite of it are on the same plane. This will happen at the next level as well if I remove the branch pointing at the viewer in the red circle. What do you recommend?

Second, the primary branch (red square) bends directly away from the viewer. I know that's not ideal, but sometimes we make sacrifices for the overall flow of the tree, which I think this front does. But what do you think? Is it ok to break that rule of the primary branch moving towards the viewer from the side?

View from the side to show why I don't think the opposite side, which would allow the primary branch to move towards the viewer, is less ideal for the front than what I have selected.


You can see down on the right how much the primary branch moves backwards.

Again, I really just want to do the best by this tree to bring out its full potential, so I am willing to change the front or my approach if you think there is a better way to design this tree.


Thank you in advance for any thoughts!

 

[JudyB]

Can you take some photos from a lower angle? It's difficult to see what is really where from that angle. Take them across the pot instead of down into the pot.

 

[tstrum]

I hope these are a bit better. Let me know if you need any other sides or angles




.

 

[JudyB]

They are all 3 from the same side. I assume this is your chosen front. If you can rotate the tree a little left or right, then you can either wire that branch so it goes off a little to one side, or if too stiff, you may have to cut back to a bud and grow it out to the side. If you don't have a bud close in, just cut back in stages. It will probably pop something you can restart that with. You should cut the apex back fairly hard. Take that whole bunch of top branches off, and go with the smaller left branch as your new apex.

 

[Steve Kudela]

Hey tstrum, Here's a quick sketch of an idea about your tree. Not a great one, but it gets the idea across. I cant tell about it's size, it would involve bending that eyepoker to the left if it's not too big. The hope there would be to replace visually the branch just above the elbow. The top would be brought down a good bit to the third branch on the left, the one just above the small back branch. Bring it up for the new apex. Then remove the low right hand side opposite branch. Maybe try a thread graft for a back branch just above it. I would also let that lowest right get stronger and use it as part of the picture. I hope this helps................SK

 

[JudyB]

Very nice @Steve Kudela exactly what I was trying to describe...

 

[Steve Kudela]

Hey Judy, I think that you had made your post as I was finishing this up. I read your post and well, you know what they say.................... about great minds, that is.

 

[Steve Kudela]

Very nice @Steve Kudela exactly what I was trying to describe...

Thanks Judy!!!

 

[BobbyLane]

I think as you get up the tree, above the first two primarys....its fine to have one or two branches coming from the front, more so if youre wanting to design a tree in the naturalistic style. take a look at real trees and you will see that branches dont just come from the sides. you dont want your tree looking flat as a pancake when viewed from the side. branches from the front and back is what gives your tree depth, so dont get hung up on the 'rules' as such. as Judy said, if you find its coming straight at you, help it to veer off a little or direct it with pruning, rather than just cutting everything off if it doesnt comply with the 'rules', because you will end up with no tree.
its fine to have branches coming from the front, they should be arranged so that you can still see the trunk line through them.

Check out this vid 11:45

 

[tstrum]

Thank you everyone for the feedback!

The eye-poker is quite thick and would take a 90 degree move to the left and then down some. I have seen some videos where people do make such extreme bends but I am very nervous about making the much of a bend with my level experience. I think it would require raffia, some guy wire and even then I think it would might still need some c channeling. If I am making it more complicated that it really is, let me know.



Here are a few more angles of just the branches









I took a few more shots from other sides as per Judy's request. This may give some more description as to how those lower branches look.

 

[tstrum]

I think as you get up the tree, above the first two primarys....its fine to have one or two branches coming from the front, more so if youre wanting to design a tree in the naturalistic style. take a look at real trees and you will see that branches dont just come from the sides. you dont want your tree looking flat as a pancake when viewed from the side. branches from the front and back is what gives your tree depth, so dont get hung up on the 'rules' as such. as Judy said, if you find its coming straight at you, help it to veer off a little or direct it with pruning, rather than just cutting everything off if it doesnt comply with the 'rules', because you will end up with no tree.
its fine to have branches coming from the front, they should be arranged so that you can still see the trunk line through them.

Check out this vid 11:45

Thank you Bobby! I do want to go for a naturalistic look on this, and I was definitely think of Walt Pall when I first saw this tree.

 

[tstrum]

Thank you Bobby! I do want to go for a naturalistic look on this, and I was definitely think of Walt Pall when I first saw this tree.

Walter* definitely don't know him to call him "Walt" haha

 

[JudyB]

I like the last photo you posted. This tree has nice potential. Is there any BYOT workshop near you that you can take this to? You may want to get eyes on with a pro to get the most out of this nice tree.

 

[tstrum]

Unfortunately living in Oklahoma City we don't have any pros nearby. But I will keep my eyes open for anything

 

[JudyB]

Do you have a club near you?

 

[tstrum]

Yes, I do and I will definitely be bringing it to our show and tell to get some input there too

 

[JudyB]

Good deal. Find someone who's work you like and see if you can approach them for help with this.