for all of us DE fans......

[RobertB]

He did make a point of saying he's testing a "horticultural grade" of DE. On his next Q&A I was going to ask him if there's a significant difference between horticultural grade and the DE that is used as an oil absorbent that most of us are getting from NAPA or in my case Optisorb from FASTENAL.

I heard that too, horticultural grade. It's funny as it was yesterday when I was picking up 50 lbs of turface at the John deer landscape center and I asked if they had MVP. They said they had all sport and some other kind I had never heard of or can remember. I asked what it was then another guy said it was like oil dry. So maybe that's horticultural grade de. Will pick some up in the coming weeks and post on it.

 

[Rose Mary]

I heard that too, horticultural grade. It's funny as it was yesterday when I was picking up 50 lbs of turface at the John deer landscape center and I asked if they had MVP. They said they had all sport and some other kind I had never heard of or can remember. I asked what it was then another guy said it was like oil dry. So maybe that's horticultural grade de. Will pick some up in the coming weeks and post on it.

The food grade DE is a fine powder which works good to kill fleas, insects, spiders even termites. I assume horticultural may be particle like napa 8822. I wish it were available in larger particles than the napa, so will be interested in what you find. MVP has different varieties, all sport is one.

 

[cmeg1]

Is there even horticultural grade a ailable anywhere? It used to be dyna rok ,I do not know why its been dicon tinued

 

[Gary McCarthy]

The food grade DE is a fine powder which works good to kill fleas, insects, spiders even termites. I assume horticultural may be particle like napa 8822. I wish it were available in larger particles than the napa, so will be interested in what you find. MVP has different varieties, all sport is one.

There's another DE product other than the NAPA 8822 called Optisorb. It's slightly larger than the NAPA 8822 and comparably priced. It's still not quite as large as we would like it to be but at least it's somewhat larger than the NAPA product.

 

[leatherback]

There's another DE product other than the NAPA 8822 called Optisorb. It's slightly larger than the NAPA 8822 and comparably priced. It's still not quite as large as we would like it to be but at least it's somewhat larger than the NAPA product.

Get kitty litter. About 10% I have to toss aside, and is only used for establishing collected plants as it is too large (1/3 inch or so).

 

[parhamr]

Hey, I think I recognize someone in that video...
The guy who gets up and walks towards the camera, briefly...is that you @parhamr ?

Yes, I’m visible at 1:19:28 and I asked two questions of Ryan

 

[jriddell88]

Movie star ️ Can we have your autograph ?

 

[parhamr]

Here’s one of the horticultural grade DE products that is easy to find in Portland: https://www.downtoearthfertilizer.com/dt_gallery_category/diatomite-rock/

This supplier also appears convenient to the area: https://www.groworganic.com/diatomite-rock-25-lb-bag.html

In the USA, it appears most of this class of rock will come from quarries in Oregon and Nevada.

 

[milehigh_7]

What he is saying is pretty close on DE and he's saying the same thing I have been saying for ages about the oxygenation aspect. That is where DE really shines. I have posted this pic other places of what DE looks like from the bottom of a pot on a 120F day about 4-6 hours after being watered. The left is straight out of the bag and the left is from the bottom of a pot. Here it is again:





I think he's wrong about 1/16 being a good size for DE that would be like pudding. Here's a few facts about DE:
TYPICAL CHARACTERIZATION:
Loose Bulk Density................... 22 – 24 lbs/cu ft
Moisture Content ...............................0.2 – 0.8%
Hardness*................................................ > 90%
pH..................................................................6.5
CEC.............................................................47.4
Water Absorption...................................... 110%

DE is not perfect. In fact, it is highly dangerous if you are careless. If you ever let the moisture level of the DE get below that of the roots, it will suck the water from the roots. This will kill your plant if it is not corrected fast. So the rule is with DE. Water every day at a minimum unless it's raining.

A while back I added the DE info that Soil chart that was floating around. So looking at the chart below, one can see that DE has a higher CEC than Akadama and I would bet my paycheck (I'm a teacher so that's not saying much) that it holds more water as well.

 

[jriddell88]

Interesting because it retains so much water , when it starts to dry it draws water from the roots ? Wouldn’t any particle that retains water try and do this ??but because it retains so much water so fast it will draw water more quickly ?

 

[milehigh_7]

Here’s one of the horticultural grade DE products that is easy to find in Portland: https://www.downtoearthfertilizer.com/dt_gallery_category/diatomite-rock/

This supplier also appears convenient to the area: https://www.groworganic.com/diatomite-rock-25-lb-bag.html

In the USA, it appears most of this class of rock will come from quarries in Oregon and Nevada.

Yep all of it EP owns Both.

I am working on a bonsai specific solution with them as we speak I just had not seen enough interest to justify it. Maybe now that one of the big guns believes in it... Well Y'all let me know.

 

[milehigh_7]

Interesting because it retains so much water , when it starts to dry it draws water from the roots ? Wouldn’t any particle that retains water try and do this ??but because it retains so much water so fast it will draw water more quickly ?

That is a question for the good Dr. @markyscott. I just know the basics that you can learn from reading. He's actually a real live expert. Maybe he will jump in.

 

[jriddell88]

Need to go back and read his soil thread . May have missed something there , I had never really thought about that until you said it but I’m sure that’s what’s going on , makes sense .

 

[Gary McCarthy]

Here’s one of the horticultural grade DE products that is easy to find in Portland: https://www.downtoearthfertilizer.com/dt_gallery_category/diatomite-rock/

This supplier also appears convenient to the area: https://www.groworganic.com/diatomite-rock-25-lb-bag.html

In the USA, it appears most of this class of rock will come from quarries in Oregon and Nevada.

What makes it "horticultural grade"?

 

[theone420]

I heard that too, horticultural grade. It's funny as it was yesterday when I was picking up 50 lbs of turface at the John deer landscape center and I asked if they had MVP. They said they had all sport and some other kind I had never heard of or can remember. I asked what it was then another guy said it was like oil dry. So maybe that's horticultural grade de. Will pick some up in the coming weeks and post on it.

Thats turface quick dry I think you are referring to and you dont want it. it is all fines like sand to dust. they use it to absorb puddles on baseball fields.

 

[cmeg1]

@Gary McCarthy I know one thing that would make it horticultural grade is that it is freshwater diatomite and not saltwater diatomite.

 

[Captnignit]

re: Turface vs DE comments here's some close ups of their composition at 10µm

Turface is the bottom of the 4x2 table.

sources:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0107689
http://www.bioprocessintl.com/downs...ication-high-density-mammalian-cell-cultures/

 

[PiñonJ]

If you go back and watch it, at 36:35 he says "what are we doing at Mirai? We're doing a lot of experimentation on DE knowing that at some point Akadama is not what we're going to be utilizing." quoted that word for word from the video. He later goes on to say that his supply of Akadama is drying up. That's why he's doing tests on DE, to then in the future switch his trees over.

He definitely hasn't committed to switching to DE. It lacks a crucial quality, which he discussed in this stream, which is the autoscaling exhibited by akadama. That is, as roots grow through it, it breaks into smaller particles, which allows for finer root formation. No other currently available substrate does this. What Ryan didn't say is that he has had akadama microscopically examined and its structure contains microscopic tubules, unlike clays, which have a plate-like microscopic structure. This is what encourages roots to penetrate the akadama particles. So far, I just have one tree in a DE mix and, as milehigh_7 has suggested, keeping it hydrated seems to be much more critical. But then, it's a deciduous and most of my other trees are conifers, so I'll have to try it out on more trees before I can say if this is a problem in my semi-arid climate.

 

[Captnignit]

One thing he mentioned was a similar Akadama like clay around Mt. Hood. Anyone want to start up a mining business? Would be nice to get our own supply of it here in the states.

 

[sorce]

@Gary McCarthy

think he's wrong about 1/16 being a good size for DE that

Amen....cuz It's that small size that leads to the.....

autoscaling exhibited by akadama.

Only this "auto scaling" comes without the "passive" breakdown.

Wanna see another earthworm?
Living in DE.
It looks large enough to be longer than the pot.
That's in here.

Young early JBP in a drainless DE tray.

And saw this one, so I lifted up a moss bit, moss, which is already full of roots....and DAMN!
Poppin!

Done Excellently.
Damn Everlasting.

Sorce