First ever styling(in progress) on large nursery stock.

[Pygo]

So after re-reading my sleep deprived post this morning asking for some styling advice on a couple new trees, I realized how unhinged I sounded(and how weird my mobile formatting looked). After spending about 7 of my 10 work hours today on googling bonsai, I decided I’ve done enough researching online for a couple lifetimes and at some point I need to just bite the bullet and trust my own instincts if I ever want to produce anything myself.

The wife is at a concert with her parents tonight so, SCORE I can spend my evening figuring out what the heck I’m doing with this tree. Buckle up, because things are about to get weird.

Shoutout to my neighbor who’s a rep for 805. He hooks me up with plenty of beer, he is a good man.

Here’s how we started. I thought it was just two trunks, with one obvious main trunk. But once I started digging in, I realized we had about 4 trunks, with 2 potential mains and no clear winner.
Here a photo dump after starting to dig in:


So here we are for the moment. I still have to rip/cut/carve the Shari on the right trunk and wire a couple more branches. The idea is to go for one of those “lightning strike” trees with a dead apex and sparse branching down below. The other issue is that the left trunk sort of lends itself to a semi cascade/windswept look going the opposite direction. And being the silly goose that I am, im somewhat inclined to do two opposite styles on one tree, but I know I’ll regret it later, so I probably won’t. I’m looking to thin it out, but am feelin indecisive at the moment, so I decided to begin this thread and finish another beer before continuing. One of these trunks might possibly get cut back entirely, but I need some experience, so im working on both as I see fit before deciding if the twin trunk will work or if one must die. Also, this is a pretty heavy chop/styling at an odd time of year, so really im keeping both in case on of them dies in the coming weeks lol. In the meantime, we have a living harp



P.s. forgive me if the formatting is off. I plan to fix it as soon as I clean up my mess

 

[Pygo]

So here is pretty much where we’ve landed for now. Not what I was expecting/aiming for, but I’m working with what I’ve got. I was too much of a coward to pick one trunk, so I’m going to let it rest and recover for a while before making my final decisions on what this tree will become. All in all, I’m pretty happy with todays “lesson”. It really helped me get a feel for how much I can bend a branch before snapping and how I can peel back the layers for dead wood. Here’s to hoping I didn’t kill it all together lol.

Also, here’s a few snapshots of my not-so-impressive bench in its current state

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Welcome Aboard Bonsai Nut!

Good first effort on this juniper.

Big cut back though. Try to remember that junipers holdd most of their energy in their foliage vs their roots.

Taper ID important in bonsai styling, so at since pot soon would be interested in seeing the trunks reduced and to wiring up a new apex out of one of the thinner branches to help improve the taper.

It it’s important for us giving our thoughts and advice to know your approximate location and USDA Plant Cold Hardiness Zone to give you our informed thoughts. To do so please double tap your icon atop the page, then account details and scroll down to enter these data and save.

Cheers
DSD serves

 

[Shibui]

Agree that climate and location are big factors in when bonsai techniques are applied. Please update your profile so we have a better idea of what might work and what's not good now.

This concept of junipers 'hold energy in the foliage V roots' simply means don't take off too much foliage at one time. I'd let your tree recover for 6 months or so now.
I think the twin trunk could work. Much will depend on how it recovers from the initial styling and which branches grow well.
You've opted for the full frontal view of the twin trunk in most of the pictures which gives the 'harp' look. Often twin trunk is better viewed with one trunk a little in front of the other. Try turning the pot 45 deg in both directions to see if the curves in both trunks look better from another angle. Sometimes just a slight turn makes a huge difference. Look for somewhere the 2 trunks echo each other's movement more if possible. The final shot appears to have much better trunk lines IMHO.

@Deep Sea Diver mentioned taper. I agree that taper is very important but there's another way to get taper, especially in junipers and that's using shari to give us 'perceived taper'. If we make a shari (dead wood part of a trunk) that starts wider near the top but narrows as it goes down the trunk, the live section is the reverse - wider low and tapering to thinner at the top. Our eyes seem to see the darker bark more than the silvery dead wood so we perceive taper even though it's not actually there. You can sort of see the effect starting to happen on the upper part of the right trunk (final pic). Bringing that shari further down the side of that trunk will give valuable taper without having to chop and grow a new apex.

 

[Tieball]

I think that the twin trunk had stronger potential when the trunks were closer together. The broad separation creates a visual problem in my view. I see the hole created and not the tree. I’d probably work in the opposite direction and try to bring the trunks closer together visually. I’d work on growing some of those low ground- level branch’s upward to close up the visual hole having them hug closer to one of the trunks.

 

[Paradox]

I think the left trunk prior to cut back screamed literati.
Too late now though...lol

Two trunks going in opposite directions is difficult to pull off.
They always seem to be fighting with each other

 

[Pygo]

Welcome Aboard Bonsai Nut!

Good first effort on this juniper.

Big cut back though. Try to remember that junipers holdd most of their energy in their foliage vs their roots.

Taper ID important in bonsai styling, so at since pot soon would be interested in seeing the trunks reduced and to wiring up a new apex out of one of the thinner branches to help improve the taper.

It it’s important for us giving our thoughts and advice to know your approximate location and USDA Plant Cold Hardiness Zone to give you our informed thoughts. To do so please double tap your icon atop the page, then account details and scroll down to enter these data and save.

Cheers
DSD serves

Thank you! Profile has been updated. Meant to do that earlier lol. My goal was for the shari to create a liiiittle bit of taper. Also, I tend to see the snapped trunk style trees with very little real taper as the thinner apex has been broken away(by "lightning" lol)

Agree that climate and location are big factors in when bonsai techniques are applied. Please update your profile so we have a better idea of what might work and what's not good now.

This concept of junipers 'hold energy in the foliage V roots' simply means don't take off too much foliage at one time. I'd let your tree recover for 6 months or so now.
I think the twin trunk could work. Much will depend on how it recovers from the initial styling and which branches grow well.
You've opted for the full frontal view of the twin trunk in most of the pictures which gives the 'harp' look. Often twin trunk is better viewed with one trunk a little in front of the other. Try turning the pot 45 deg in both directions to see if the curves in both trunks look better from another angle. Sometimes just a slight turn makes a huge difference. Look for somewhere the 2 trunks echo each other's movement more if possible. The final shot appears to have much better trunk lines IMHO.

@Deep Sea Diver mentioned taper. I agree that taper is very important but there's another way to get taper, especially in junipers and that's using shari to give us 'perceived taper'. If we make a shari (dead wood part of a trunk) that starts wider near the top but narrows as it goes down the trunk, the live section is the reverse - wider low and tapering to thinner at the top. Our eyes seem to see the darker bark more than the silvery dead wood so we perceive taper even though it's not actually there. You can sort of see the effect starting to happen on the upper part of the right trunk (final pic). Bringing that shari further down the side of that trunk will give valuable taper without having to chop and grow a new apex.

Most definitely! I was thinking it, but forgot to add the info. I'm in sunny SoCal, so the upcoming winter is mainly just a joke to us lol.

I'll definitely give it ample time to recover before working it any more. Initially I was going to be much more careful, but when i broke off one of the trunks/branches in the beginning, it carved out a chunk of my preferred trunk. Since I had already potentially killed my vision from the start, I decided to make the most of this practice piece and just go heavy and see what happens. It was surprisingly cheap for the size and the nursery owner said he can keep them stocked year round, which is great!

Also, great tips on the shari and turning the viewing angle. My intent was to have the shari create some false taper, but I like your idea of bringing it down further. Also, I'd like to chalk the harp effect up to me being a bad photographer. I stuck the wood block in there to make working on the individual trunks easier(and so the individual trunk lines could be seen via photo), but that level of separation will not be the final form. Once I finished hacking away, I realized the tree needed a break, so it's been left in a funky intermediate state purely for health reasons.

 

[Pygo]

I think that the twin trunk had stronger potential when the trunks were closer together. The broad separation creates a visual problem in my view. I see the hole created and not the tree. I’d probably work in the opposite direction and try to bring the trunks closer together visually. I’d work on growing some of those low ground- level branch’s upward to close up the visual hole having them hug closer to one of the trunks.

I was originally enjoying the separation, but once the foliage thinned out and I shortened the trunks more, I was also thinking closer together was a better look. I should've removed the block for a proper photo at the end, but I mainly had it in so you all could see the details of each trunk without any overlap and also so I could work on each one easier. I have more work planned, but I don't want to kill the tree on day 1, so I'm kind of stuck with my funky harp until I know it can handle the abuse.

 

[Pygo]

I think the left trunk prior to cut back screamed literati.
Too late now though...lol

Two trunks going in opposite directions is difficult to pull off.
They always seem to be fighting with each other

I've been very interested in literati lately, but wasn't feeling bold enough to pull it off lol. I can get more material to make it happen though!

The twin trunk was a bit confusing to work with, since it wasn't really my original intention. I started working each side like individual trees with the intention of cutting one of them back. The left one is/was most likely to be sacrificed, which is why I ended up cutting and thinning it out to match the right trunk a little better. I was a little more gentle than with the right trunk, so it hasn't quite reached the look I'm envisioning, but I'm leaving it for now for the health of the tree

 

[Tieball]

I was originally enjoying the separation, but once the foliage thinned out and I shortened the trunks more, I was also thinking closer together was a better look. I should've removed the block for a proper photo at the end, but I mainly had it in so you all could see the details of each trunk without any overlap and also so I could work on each one easier. I have more work planned, but I don't want to kill the tree on day 1, so I'm kind of stuck with my funky harp until I know it can handle the abuse.

I saw this photo today. Reminded me of a way to fill in the trunk gap, harp look, with some deadwood feature.

 

[Pygo]

I pulled the spacer block out and it definitely is looking better with the trunks closer together, buuut I forgot to snag a pic before leaving this morning.

That being said, I’m wondering what everyone thinks about snapping the left trunk down and either just making it another deadwood feature, or leaving like 1 or 2 branches/pads to look like a tree that’s barely survived disaster lol



I’m envisioning something along these lines. More of an accent to the main tree

 

[Pygo]

I saw this photo today. Reminded me of a way to fill in the trunk gap, harp look, with some deadwood feature.
View attachment 562363

Thanks! That’s sort of what I’m envisioning for if I keep both trunks. Neither trunk has much foliage in the middle, mainly just branching in the outward directions. That’s some good confirmation for the “left trunk gets left branches and right trunk gets right branches” approach lol. Seems like a hit or miss approach, but they could compliment each other well

 

[Tieball]

Thanks! That’s sort of what I’m envisioning for if I keep both trunks. Neither trunk has much foliage in the middle, mainly just branching in the outward directions. That’s some good confirmation for the “left trunk gets left branches and right trunk gets right branches” approach lol. Seems like a hit or miss approach, but they could compliment each other well

I was seeing the lower branches shown in a circled area as opportunities to wire, or other support method, upward to just wildly grow providing the future deadwood feature. The tree struggling at the base but breaking through with growth above.

I like the barely survived disaster image you could create. If I went that direction I’d strip the bark and fundamentally kill off the section I wanted as the disaster side. I would not chop anything off just yet though. I’d let the tree recover and redistribute resources. Chopping off now eliminates possible deadwood to see and work on. Over time I would eliminate some of the deadwood side…..but would not do that right away…..once worked on nothing will grow back and I might regret a removal as I see the remaining survival branches develop more. Generally speaking the red line chop point looks good….id just hold off chopping for awhile.

 

[Tieball]

The twin trunk was a bit confusing to work with, since it wasn't really my original intention.

I find a lot of new directions when the unexpected…not my original intention…shows itself in time. I find working on a tree and then setting it aside for care-only quite rewarding and refreshing. Something new appears and energizes my thinking about the tree. I never look at a tree thinking there is only one way to move forward. You have an excellent beginning….now is the time for stepping back and engaging patience and imagination.

 

[Kodama]

I'll also add that after it fully recovers you may want to consider the repot and handling the roots next as that procedure may determine what you are left to work with.

 

[Paradox]

Its also perfectly fine to stare at a tree for a few months to a year (or more in some cases) while you figure out the best way forward.

I have had more than a few that took years for me to figure them out

 

[Pygo]

I was seeing the lower branches shown in a circled area as opportunities to wire, or other support method, upward to just wildly grow providing the future deadwood feature. The tree struggling at the base but breaking through with growth above.

I like the barely survived disaster image you could create. If I went that direction I’d strip the bark and fundamentally kill off the section I wanted as the disaster side. I would not chop anything off just yet though. I’d let the tree recover and redistribute resources. Chopping off now eliminates possible deadwood to see and work on. Over time I would eliminate some of the deadwood side…..but would not do that right away…..once worked on nothing will grow back and I might regret a removal as I see the remaining survival branches develop more. Generally speaking the red line chop point looks good….id just hold off chopping for awhile.
View attachment 562411

That's not a bad idea! I hadn't really considered developing branches for the sole purpose of jin, but i guess that should be a relatively obvious technique lol. I should've been a little more clear. I wasn't thinking hard chop right at the red line, but only leaving the branch(es) below the line living and shari the rest. I think you make a good point of just stripping the bark for now(or whenever I get back to attacking it) and deciding where to cut later. I was messing around with a clearance section arborvitae and made the mistake of lopping off too many branches, then not having enough to work with in the end.

 

[Pygo]

I'll also add that after it fully recovers you may want to consider the repot and handling the roots next as that procedure may determine what you are left to work with.

yes, that'll very likely be the next step! Nursery owner said he had up-potted this one and a few others because they were becoming fairly root bound and a pain to water for him. I believe they were just slip-potted, so no damage done to the root mass, but I'm not sure if I should disturb it at this point. Part of me wants to reduce the roots before they begin filling out this big pot, but I don't want to shock the plant any more than I already have.

If a repot is ill advised, I'm also considering poking a ton of holes in the current pot to air prune them in place lol

 

[Paradox]

yes, that'll very likely be the next step! Nursery owner said he had up-potted this one and a few others because they were becoming fairly root bound and a pain to water for him. I believe they were just slip-potted, so no damage done to the root mass, but I'm not sure if I should disturb it at this point. Part of me wants to reduce the roots before they begin filling out this big pot, but I don't want to shock the plant any more than I already have.

If a repot is ill advised, I'm also considering poking a ton of holes in the current pot to air prune them in place lol

Repot in late winter or early spring

 

[Pygo]

So it’s been a couple weeks of rest for this tree and so far so good! Over all, it’s still looking nice and healthy(I know it’s still a little early to make that call). The only sign of dieback is a tiny branch on the edge of the Shari created near the base. Other than that, I’m seeing active growth on multiple other branches and no real sign of browning.

I’m going to continue to ignore it throughout the winter and come spring will downsize the heck out of this huge pot along with making a few more styling decisions. It’s got a ways to go, but I’m seeing good potential in it.

P.s. here’s a cypress purchased at the same time and styled shortly after. It, too, needs more work, but I didn’t want to go too crazy for the health of the tree. Again, still looking pretty good after a couple weeks