Elephant Bush - Next steps?

[smc]

Hi all,

I bought this tree a few weeks ago because I liked the shape of the trunk and it reminded me of a natural looking tree. But, there are also some areas in need of improvement:

1) The most obvious flaw is there is a large gap in the foliage (the area in the middle of the tree that only has a single branch sticking up).
2) The crown of the tree also looks to be leaning heavily towards the right
3) Upon closer inspection, many of the smaller branches appear to be sticking directly up rather than branching horizontally from the main branches.
4) Many of the smaller branches on the right side of the tree are "leggy" with foliage only at the very edges

Any advice on next steps? The tree is normally positioned outside on a balcony where it receives full sun. This is one of my first trees so forgive me if the wiring looks amateur hour.

Thanks!

 

[Michael P]

I don't have much experience with this species, so I'm interested to read what other people with more experience have to say. Could you post a close up of the nebari? It looks like you have some coiled roots which may need work.

 

[LemonBonsai]

This tree is very easy to use the clip and grow style of designing branch structure rather then wiring. What makes up the "bark" is still very soft so wiring can damage the trunk or scar it. And I don't believe this "bark" Callouses over like other trees so the scars will be somewhat noticeable and permanent, they will fade and turn the brown bark color again but wont be a smooth transition. Soil also likes to dry out for a day or two in between watering with my experience.

If I had this tree personally I would probably cut the whole top part off and make it look like an african style flat acacia tree. But will be easy to fill in that left section if you want to make it a more full tree. Just will take time

 

[hinmo24t]

elephant bush, reminds me of an ex






jp jp

 

[smc]

Attached are photos of the roots and also the lowest main branch whose smaller branch basically sticks straight up rather than branching horizontally.

It is unclear to me if I cut back the vertical branch if backbudding will occur or if it will leave basically a very bare, ugly branch.

 

[Carol 83]

You could cut back the straggly branches, it will backbud.

 

[Michael P]

Please add your location to your profile. If the season and weather permit repotting now, I would do some root work. Remove the circling roots to see if there are any radial roots below them. The circling roots will interfere with the development of the nebari.

Since you like the trunk line, you can shorten branches to encourage back-budding, and thin the top of the tree to improve balance.

 

[smc]

Great to hear on cutting back on the straggly branches!

I am in New York, so we are at the end of summer with fall around the corner. In the winter I plan to bring it inside with a grow light. Not sure if that is problematic from your perspective or whether you would recommend waiting to spring. I am all for cutting back the circling roots if that is not a problem.

 

[YamadoriFL]

Nice jade plant. Dry out the clippings a bit and they root pretty easily without much work.

 

[Michael P]

These trees love hot weather and sun, so unless you can give very bright light during the winter, be conservative now. Without repotting, you can remove some of the circling roots above the soil. At least this will give you some idea what is going on below them. Moderate thinning of the top and shortening lower branches will be OK too.

I am relying on the Portulacaria masters to correct me if I'm wrong, LOL.

 

[smc]

These trees love hot weather and sun, so unless you can give very bright light during the winter, be conservative now. Without repotting, you can remove some of the circling roots above the soil. At least this will give you some idea what is going on below them. Moderate thinning of the top and shortening lower branches will be OK too.

I am relying on the Portulacaria masters to correct me if I'm wrong, LOL.

After removing a little surface soil, it looks like there is a very thick wire around the base of the tree holding it in the pot and the roots may be circling because it is preventing them from growing outward

 

[Forsoothe!]

This tree has more style problems that Carter has pills. You will get more help if you state plainly what you want from this tree. Please describe the tree of dreams in any way that you are comfortable, even if, maybe especially if you have to do it in clumsy words. We can't direct you until we know where you want to go.

 

[smc]

This tree has more style problems that Carter has pills. You will get more help if you state plainly what you want from this tree. Please describe the tree of dreams in any way that you are comfortable, even if, maybe especially if you have to do it in clumsy words. We can't direct you until we know where you want to go.

Broad vision is that I liked the shape of the trunk and I believed I could work with it to create a natural looking tree. When I purchased the tree online, what was clear to me in the original photos was the middle of the canopy was missing and so over time I was hoping to fill that part of the tree out (hence that is part of my original question). But, after receiving the tree in person what has become apparent to me is that many of the lower branches have side branches that stick straight up rather than branch horizontally and so I guess I need to fix that too if I want the tree to look natural in person. The canopy on the right I was not planning to do anything significant with other than potentially ramification to make it thicker while I waited for the left side of the tree to thicken up.

As this is my first real tree and it was not very expensive (albeit I may have still overpaid now that the structural issues have become clear), I do not mind taking risks with structurally styling and see where it goes.

 

[Michael P]

Those are all reasonable goals.

Can you post a photo of the wire? It's common to wire trees into the pot, but it should not be very c.ose to the nebari. And such wiring would not cause circling roots.

 

[LittleDingus]

Broad vision is that I liked the shape of the trunk and I believed I could work with it to create a natural looking tree. When I purchased the tree online, what was clear to me in the original photos was the middle of the canopy was missing and so over time I was hoping to fill that part of the tree out (hence that is part of my original question). But, after receiving the tree in person what has become apparent to me is that many of the lower branches have side branches that stick straight up rather than branch horizontally and so I guess I need to fix that too if I want the tree to look natural in person. The canopy on the right I was not planning to do anything significant with other than potentially ramification to make it thicker while I waited for the left side of the tree to thicken up.

As this is my first real tree and it was not very expensive (albeit I may have still overpaid now that the structural issues have become clear), I do not mind taking risks with structurally styling and see where it goes.

One thing you need to realize early is that the portulacaria is not a "tree". It's a succulent. Think cactus: all cacti are succulents, not all succulents are cacti You can grow it to look like a tree...a local nursery here has a really nice scene built with several portulacaria that are very convincing trees...but they don't grow like trees.

The branches are fragile. They tend to snap at nodes when bent too far. The plant doesn't much care. What often happens is the next node or 3 will die back until a point where the plant can "seal off" and compartmentalize the wound. It will gladly grow new leaves from there...and many other places...if healthy enough.

Growth stays strong and upright if watered properly and enough light is available. If light is low...they tend to grow spindly with saggy branches. The tips will usually try to grow to the light and "reach" towards the window. It takes a long time to kill one off from lack of light. Increasing light will bring strong growth again. Just be careful of sunburn and increase light gradually. Being a succulent, you can break off a branch...or even a leaf...and put it in soil and 95% of the time it will root. I occasionally get babies from leaves that fell into the pot and grew roots.

Being succulent, water is the worst enemy. The leaves will "deflate" and get less turgid when the plant needs water. Over watering...especially sitting in water...can cause rot pretty quickly. Rot usually starts below the soil and travels up the trunk. If that happens, cut the branches off at healthy tissue and replant. Throw the rest away.

I treat my succulents different than most. I keep them in a free draining soil that doesn't retain water. In the growing season, I water freely and frequently. Succulents don't "flush" the way trees do. They tend to be optimistic and grow away as long as conditions are favorable. As the temps cool, I water less. In winter, I water only once the leaves start to lose turgidity...sometimes not for a month at a time. I don't worry too much about light in the winter. Mine often stop growing in the winter. They do get light but just a fraction of what they get in the summer.

They can be convincing trees but the growth habit is the leaves...and thus branches...will always reach towards the light pretty much no matter what you try to do. Look at how the branches and leaves in Carol's pictures all point generally the same direction. Wiring won't "fix" that. The leaves will try to turn into the light as best they can and the "branches" grow out the center of the leaves.

 

[LittleDingus]

To convince yourself they are not "trees" in the sense that bonsai means, snap a branch and look for growth rings. There aren't any. The branches are storage vessels for water just as in cacti.

 

[smc]

One thing you need to realize early is that the portulacaria is not a "tree". It's a succulent. Think cactus: all cacti are succulents, not all succulents are cacti You can grow it to look like a tree...a local nursery here has a really nice scene built with several portulacaria that are very convincing trees...but they don't grow like trees.

The branches are fragile. They tend to snap at nodes when bent too far. The plant doesn't much care. What often happens is the next node or 3 will die back until a point where the plant can "seal off" and compartmentalize the wound. It will gladly grow new leaves from there...and many other places...if healthy enough.

Growth stays strong and upright if watered properly and enough light is available. If light is low...they tend to grow spindly with saggy branches. The tips will usually try to grow to the light and "reach" towards the window. It takes a long time to kill one off from lack of light. Increasing light will bring strong growth again. Just be careful of sunburn and increase light gradually. Being a succulent, you can break off a branch...or even a leaf...and put it in soil and 95% of the time it will root. I occasionally get babies from leaves that fell into the pot and grew roots.

Being succulent, water is the worst enemy. The leaves will "deflate" and get less turgid when the plant needs water. Over watering...especially sitting in water...can cause rot pretty quickly. Rot usually starts below the soil and travels up the trunk. If that happens, cut the branches off at healthy tissue and replant. Throw the rest away.

I treat my succulents different than most. I keep them in a free draining soil that doesn't retain water. In the growing season, I water freely and frequently. Succulents don't "flush" the way trees do. They tend to be optimistic and grow away as long as conditions are favorable. As the temps cool, I water less. In winter, I water only once the leaves start to lose turgidity...sometimes not for a month at a time. I don't worry too much about light in the winter. Mine often stop growing in the winter. They do get light but just a fraction of what they get in the summer.

They can be convincing trees but the growth habit is the leaves...and thus branches...will always reach towards the light pretty much no matter what you try to do. Look at how the branches and leaves in Carol's pictures all point generally the same direction. Wiring won't "fix" that. The leaves will try to turn into the light as best they can and the "branches" grow out the center of the leaves.

Thanks - really helpful color on dieback and approach on growth. Fortunately I already know the part on succulent vs. tree and no convincing needed

I would love "real trees" but living in a NYC apartment with a balcony I have realized that there are too many adverse factors - not enough sun for conifers (sun eventually passes over the building, so only 5-6 hours of direct sun per day), too much wind, no proper winter shelter and no ability to create partial shade for deciduous trees (save maybe for an Amur maple which can handle the cold). So, after research I have decided to go the tropical & succulent route which seem to be much more forgiving in terms of sunlight and I can bring the trees indoors in the winter. I have seen lots of photos where people have had success getting elephant bushes to mimic the look of deciduous looking trees and I would be perfectly happy with that.

 

[MrWunderful]

If it were mine, I would get it i to free draining soil in late spring/early summer and cut off those girdling roots.

Then when it gets vigorous again, i would cut it back hard with the rough design you want- almost leaving no secondary branching towards top (to allow tree to get a rough triangle shape) then start cutting every shoot as soon as it has a second set of leaves extended.

Do that for a few years and you will have tons of ramification to do a heavy edit on it once a year to branches you want to keep.

Maintain from there!

 

[sorce]

I'd ditch the base all together and layer the most interesting 3 trees off this.

Sorce

 

[smc]

I'd ditch the base all together and layer the most interesting 3 trees off this.

Sorce

Pass