El Duderino's Garden ... A Deep Dive

[El Duderino]

I guess my hinoki post made everyone speechless. So, here's the next two trees. I'm 90% sure these are pinus taeda aka loblolly pines. Along with longleaf, these pines dominate our landscape in south central North Carolina. The story about these little guys goes like this: my daughter had just turned two and was in a running series here in town. It's basically a 40-yard dash for a bunch of toddlers--one of the funnier scenes you'll ever see. So, we go to her first race in late March and it lasts maybe 10 minutes. It's at an old abandoned golf course. So, we are walking back to the car and there's an old tee box covered in sand and there are three tiny pine seedlings growing right where everyone is walking.



At this point in late March, I'd been obsessing over collecting trees but had only bought one piece of nursery stock. When I saw these little guys, I knew what had to be done. So, I walked with my wife and daughter back to the car and said, "see you at home," as we'd driven separately. I then walked swiftly to my car, grabbed a plastic grocery bag, stuffed it in my pocket and made my way back to the walking pat where the trees were. As I got down on the ground to inspect them, I realized people were looking at me funny. At that moment, I just blurted out, "Contact, lost it!" I don't even wear glasses . But it did the trick, they nodded and kept walking.

Then, without knowing much about what I was doing, I pulled them right out of the sand. It was easy, they just slipped right out with all their roots attached. I popped them into the grocery bag and headed back to my car. When I got home, I put them into the only potted them up into the plastic training pots I'd just bought. The substrate was pumice, lava, and akadama.



The little guy on the left above did not make it. But the other two have proven to be survivors.



Here are the three of them all potted up:



The survivors have been growing unchecked since March 21 in their new pots. I put a tiny bit of wire on one of them and have been plucking dead needles but that is it. As you can see below, one of them is very leggy. There is likely no need to worry about design on these trees for a good while. But I do want to make sure I guide them appropriately.

Pinus taeda #1
7/1/2021


Pinus taeda #1
8/9/2021


Pinus taeda #2
7/1/2021


Pinus taeda #2
8/9/2021



Thanks for reading. Would love to hear thoughts and feedback.

 

[rockm]

Thanks for the advice! I have already joined Triangle Bonsai Club, there's just not been much of anything going on so far due to the pandemic. But I'm really looking forward to attending workshops, meeting other members, and gleaning all I can from in person learning.

Can't wait to make trips to the NC Arboretum and the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum in DC. Both are top of my list and I plan to visit in the next few months. I have also been fortunate enough to meet @JoeR through Bnut and he lives ~30 minutes down the road. We have become fast friends, visiting each other's gardens, making nursery trips, and nerding out on plants in general. It's been great to learn from his experience so far and Joe's always generous in answering beginner questions I have.

That's an interesting point about larger trees I'd not thought of before. It's a bit similar to the idea in golf that the handicap on a par 5 is always more difficult because you have more opportunities to hit a bad shot as opposed to easier on a par 3 because there's less room for error. I will certainly take that into consideration as I progress. Thanks again for the feedback and advice!

If you've ever had an aquarium, you know that the larger the tank, the more stable it is and less prone to disaster. That's because the volume of water buffers water purity and even some disease problems. There is more margin for overfeeding, etc. Same holds true for bonsai. Small and tiny bonsai live on a razor's edge of soil and climate conditions. Small mistakes are magnified and concentrated. That is why shohin and mame size bonsai (such as yours) are mostly the realm of relative experts in Japan. Make a mistake in soil, fertilizer, overwatering, overpruning, etc. your tree is more likely to immediately feel the impact and react to those mistakes quickly.

 

[rockm]

I guess my hinoki post made everyone speechless. So, here's the next two trees. I'm 90% sure these are pinus taeda aka loblolly pines. Along with longleaf, these pines dominate our landscape in south central North Carolina. The story about these little guys goes like this: my daughter had just turned two and was in a running series here in town. It's basically a 40-yard dash for a bunch of toddlers--one of the funnier scenes you'll ever see. So, we go to her first race in late March and it lasts maybe 10 minutes. It's at an old abandoned golf course. So, we are walking back to the car and there's an old tee box covered in sand and there are three tiny pine seedlings growing right where everyone is walking.

View attachment 390654

At this point in late March, I'd been obsessing over collecting trees but had only bought one piece of nursery stock. When I saw these little guys, I knew what had to be done. So, I walked with my wife and daughter back to the car and said, "see you at home," as we'd driven separately. I then walked swiftly to my car, grabbed a plastic grocery bag, stuffed it in my pocket and made my way back to the walking pat where the trees were. As I got down on the ground to inspect them, I realized people were looking at me funny. At that moment, I just blurted out, "Contact, lost it!" I don't even wear glasses . But it did the trick, they nodded and kept walking.

Then, without knowing much about what I was doing, I pulled them right out of the sand. It was easy, they just slipped right out with all their roots attached. I popped them into the grocery bag and headed back to my car. When I got home, I put them into the only potted them up into the plastic training pots I'd just bought. The substrate was pumice, lava, and akadama.

View attachment 390661

The little guy on the left above did not make it. But the other two have proven to be survivors.

View attachment 390663

Here are the three of them all potted up:

View attachment 390664

The survivors have been growing unchecked since March 21 in their new pots. I put a tiny bit of wire on one of them and have been plucking dead needles but that is it. As you can see below, one of them is very leggy. There is likely no need to worry about design on these trees for a good while. But I do want to make sure I guide them appropriately.

Pinus taeda #1
7/1/2021
View attachment 390675

Pinus taeda #1
8/9/2021
View attachment 390682View attachment 390683

Pinus taeda #2
7/1/2021
View attachment 390684

Pinus taeda #2
8/9/2021
View attachment 390685
View attachment 390686

Thanks for reading. Would love to hear thoughts and feedback.

Unusual Pine to Decandle: Loblolly

The search for new, interesting native plants for bonsai continues unabated. After finding a bonsai-worthy plant, a secondary puzzler is what known techniques might we apply to the new species. Lob…

crataegus.com

 

[El Duderino]

If you've ever had an aquarium, you know that the larger the tank, the more stable it is and less prone to disaster. That's because the volume of water buffers water purity and even some disease problems. There is more margin for overfeeding, etc. Same holds true for bonsai. Small and tiny bonsai live on a razor's edge of soil and climate conditions. Small mistakes are magnified and concentrated. That is why shohin and mame size bonsai (such as yours) are mostly the realm of relative experts in Japan. Make a mistake in soil, fertilizer, overwatering, overpruning, etc. your tree is more likely to immediately feel the impact and react to those mistakes quickly.

That is great insight. I definitely didn't realize this about aquariums. Makes the same kind of sense in the context of Bonsai.

To be clear, I don't have a particular leaning personally or in my collection toward mame or shohin. It does happen that the first three trees I've discussed in this thread are on the small size. But my trees do and will continue to run the gamut in variety of sizes and species. I intend to work with material of all kinds and sizes. For instance, the pinus taeda I just discussed are only in small pots because that's all I had at the time. I intend to up-pot both of these into pond baskets this coming year in order to keep them growing. For the same reason, I'm not even worried about decandling them yet as I want to add to the girth of the trunk.

I have a number of larger trees you will see on here in the coming days. But I really appreciate the insightful advice, especially as I'd not thought of things in these terms before. I have come far enough at this point where I'm not necessarily making "avoiding heartache" my main priority because I know it's inevitably part of the process. But I do want to approach each tree mindful that it's a living thing and I am responsible for its care to some degree because I've decided to keep it in a pot. That said, I do actually want to develop some decent bonsai at some point. So, to your main point, I suppose leaning toward larger material will increase my chances of success. Thanks again for taking the time to share your advice.

 

[rockm]

That is great insight. I definitely didn't realize this about aquariums. Makes the same kind of sense in the context of Bonsai.

To be clear, I don't have a particular leaning personally or in my collection toward mame or shohin. It does happen that the first three trees I've discussed in this thread are on the small size. But my trees do and will continue to run the gamut in variety of sizes and species. I intend to work with material of all kinds and sizes. For instance, the pinus taeda I just discussed are only in small pots because that's all I had at the time. I intend to up-pot both of these into pond baskets this coming year in order to keep them growing. For the same reason, I'm not even worried about decandling them yet as I want to add to the girth of the trunk.

I have a number of larger trees you will see on here in the coming days. But I really appreciate the insightful advice, especially as I'd not thought of things in these terms before. I have come far enough at this point where I'm not necessarily making "avoiding heartache" my main priority because I know it's inevitably part of the process. But I do want to approach each tree mindful that it's a living thing and I am responsible for its care to some degree because I've decided to keep it in a pot. That said, I do actually want to develop some decent bonsai at some point. So, to your main point, I suppose leaning toward larger material will increase my chances of success. Thanks again for taking the time to share your advice.

I posted that article on the Loblolly not for the decandling advice, but to show size. Loblollies are HUGE trees and have the branching habits and needle size to go with that, so if your planning on using it, it's best to use larger stock. That tree in the article was NOT grown in a container. It was collected in the wild at roughly its current size. For small seedlings to get to usable bonsai size requires in-ground growing. It will take roughly a decade in a pot to approach any kind of bonsai-ability, probably more.

 

[El Duderino]

I posted that article on the Loblolly not for the decandling advice, but to show size. Loblollies are HUGE trees and have the branching habits and needle size to go with that, so if your planning on using it, it's best to use larger stock. That tree in the article was NOT grown in a container. It was collected in the wild at roughly its current size. For small seedlings to get to usable bonsai size requires in-ground growing. It will take roughly a decade in a pot to approach any kind of bonsai-ability, probably more.

Thanks or the clarification @rockm. That makes total sense. As I mentioned, these were the first trees I collected and they were in a walking path. They weren’t going to make it in the ground where they were. I put them in pots back then because I just thought that’s what you do. I now know better but can’t move them until the timing is right.

My plan now is to up-pot them, likely into a pond basket or an Anderson flat and let the roots grow into the ground. I know this will still be slower than ground growing but I have more time than space.

These will likely never be great trees in my lifetime but they will hold a sentimental place in my collection as long as they’re alive. Again, thanks for the feedback. I appreciate your taking the time to reply. I am in total agreement with you on loblolly and have lots of more mature material around here to choose from. I won’t be plucking any more seedlings from walkways any more because, while I may have the time, I don’t want to spend it growing loblolly seedlings. But these first two will stick around a while I hope.

 

[El Duderino]

Next up: Soft-touch Holly, Ilex crenata, I believe.

Please provide feedback on this tree so far. I know it's got a long way to go but I am eager to hear if you all think I am on the right path. Please provide unbridled input as I am eager to learn.

Found this at a visit to Reaves Nursery Farm in Aberdeen, NC. I went there with @JoeR back in mid June and he helped me scope out some good material. Here it is a day or so after I brought it home:



It's really hard to tell from the all-but-worthless second picture (above) but Joe and I were hunting a trunk. The idea behind buying this (I think it was ~$30 if I remember correctly) was that it could become a decent tree in a pot in a relatively short amount of time. The trunk is already grown out. Most of the development that needs to occur would be in the branches.

With such a developed trunk, my thought was that the design could reflect a big lone tree in a field--the kind you take naps or enjoy a picnic under. So, after a few days staring at it, I started some light shaping. I had a rough idea but truly was just winging it, trying to get an understanding of the makeup of the tree. Here are some progression pics:







Above picture is after the first pruning on 7/17. Unlike most of my pruning exercises to this point, I liked the direction this one was going. So, I continued over the next few days, hopefully continuing to improve both branch selection and shape. The truth is, though, I continued to not be entirely sure what I was doing. Generally, I wanted to bring it into a shape that made sense without losing key branches I may need later. I cleaned tons of old dead leaves from the interior and started to open it up to encourage young new shoots closer to the trunk.



Finally, here is the tree as of this evening. I'm really excited that it took the pruning, however light it may have been, and is now showing new growth. I think my main issue is not really understanding what to do next and how this species will respond to whatever else may be required. Thanks for any input.

 

[El Duderino]

Up next: Hibiscus syriacus aka Rose of Sharon

Bought this tree back in mid June at the same time as the soft touch holly. It was in the discount area at Reaves Nursery Farm. I love that it flowers throughout the season. I really like the bark also. The trunk is pretty decent too with some good movement. I've no idea what I'm going to do with it style-wise yet. Will have a look at the roots come late winter/early spring and possibly move it to an Anderson flat with proper substrate. I've also planted a handful of cuttings; eager to see if those take. Here are some photos; no progression really to document yet:

 

[rockm]

The holly has a nice trunk buuuut, all the branching grows from a single level at the top. That's not a good thing, since it will cause a knob swelling and inverse taper at the top of the trunk--it's already starting to do this. If all those branches emanated from different levels, this design would be a great idea. As it is now, I'd eliminate all but the central leader. See what new bud may pop on the trunk, hopefully you'll get some that aren't on the bulge.

 

[El Duderino]

The holly has a nice trunk buuuut, all the branching grows from a single level at the top. That's not a good thing, since it will cause a knob swelling and inverse taper at the top of the trunk--it's already starting to do this. If all those branches emanated from different levels, this design would be a great idea. As it is now, I'd eliminate all but the central leader. See what new bud may pop on the trunk, hopefully you'll get some that aren't on the bulge.

Thanks, @rockm. The longer I've spent looking at it, I think you're right. There was some low growth that I cleaned up but it was weak. I don't know for certain it will back bud, but based on reading I've done on other Ilex, it should. I'm guessing it's appropriate to do a hard cutback in early spring with this species?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@El Duderino
Hello Asa,
I finally stumbled into your thread. NICE. At first glance I really liked your Hinoki and the Ilex.

I did a google search on Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Little John'. It is an Isle Nursery cultivar. It is classed as a dwarf, meaning it grows only about 3 to at most 6 inches a year. Expected height at 10 years will be no more than 6 feet. Most of the cultivars of Hinoki in the nursery trade are slow growing, the wild form can grow a foot or more per year, but those are not the ones propagated by nurseries.


The different foliage types should be interesting. Given the slow growth rate for this cultivar (clone) and that it is the most "bonsai like" of your trees at the moment, I would just work with what you have. True, as @rockm suggested, bigger is easier to work with and more forgiving of mistakes. But most of your trees are in nursery pots, you don't need to move this one to a nursery pot right away to size it up. Enjoy it as is.

I find Hinoki quite winter hardy. For the last decade, I winter my Hinoki just set on the ground for winter. Your climate is much more mild, you should be able to winter it outdoors no problem.

If you feel you really have to do something, take this over to JoeR's place, or bring him over to your place. and together thin out the number of branches a little. I would start at the bottom and work my way up. You want to end up with a left, right, back, left, right, back pattern for the middle third of the height of the tree. As you get to the upper third of the tree, the pattern will be some version of left, right, back, front, and so on. It should not be a "perfect spiral" branch arrangement, as that can look contrived. But you might want to thin out the number of branches. Definitely do not take off more than say 10% to 20%, as you want to hang on to a fair number of branches.

Key is, hinoki do not back bud, so it is far better to keep more branches than you need at first and especially keep short little branches coming directly from the trunk. To keep a branch alive always keep some green on a branch you want to keep. Keep small branches close to the trunk, they will be your "spares" for 10 or more years down the road. Hinoki are one of the more difficult conifers to master pruning, because they don't back bud. But they are otherwise easy to grow. Virtually all old Hinoki masterpiece bonsai in Japan and the USA are fairly large, often over 3 feet tall. The reason, they don't back bud, so they must continually get bigger. It is easier to reduce the height of a pine or a spruce than it is to reduce a Hinoki. So for the time being, enjoy the tree like look of your Hinoki now while it is young. Don't necessarily race to do more than a little light pruning on it. You have plenty of raw material that back buds well to work with, you can get away with mostly leaving 'Little John' alone.

The general plan for a generic tree is the first third of its height, or distance from the roots (if its not upright) The first third is trunk, the second third is main branching, the final third is the twigs and leaves or needles. This is a guide, not a rule. Use this guide unless artistic inspiration tells you something different is better. Sounds like it will turn out a generic tree, but trees rarely follow our plans, so it usually turns out a pleasant tree that will have just enough quirks that it will look unique. This can be applied to your Hinoki, and it can be applied to your Ilex.


I'll give you my thoughts on the holly in another post.

 

[El Duderino]

@El Duderino
Hello Asa,
I finally stumbled into your thread. NICE. At first glance I really liked your Hinoki and the Ilex.

I did a google search on Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Little John'. It is an Isle Nursery cultivar. It is classed as a dwarf, meaning it grows only about 3 to at most 6 inches a year. Expected height at 10 years will be no more than 6 feet. Most of the cultivars of Hinoki in the nursery trade are slow growing, the wild form can grow a foot or more per year, but those are not the ones propagated by nurseries.
View attachment 391303

The different foliage types should be interesting. Given the slow growth rate for this cultivar (clone) and that it is the most "bonsai like" of your trees at the moment, I would just work with what you have. True, as @rockm suggested, bigger is easier to work with and more forgiving of mistakes. But most of your trees are in nursery pots, you don't need to move this one to a nursery pot right away to size it up. Enjoy it as is.

I find Hinoki quite winter hardy. For the last decade, I winter my Hinoki just set on the ground for winter. Your climate is much more mild, you should be able to winter it outdoors no problem.

If you feel you really have to do something, take this over to JoeR's place, or bring him over to your place. and together thin out the number of branches a little. I would start at the bottom and work my way up. You want to end up with a left, right, back, left, right, back pattern for the middle third of the height of the tree. As you get to the upper third of the tree, the pattern will be some version of left, right, back, front, and so on. It should not be a "perfect spiral" branch arrangement, as that can look contrived. But you might want to thin out the number of branches. Definitely do not take off more than say 10% to 20%, as you want to hang on to a fair number of branches.

Key is, hinoki do not back bud, so it is far better to keep more branches than you need at first and especially keep short little branches coming directly from the trunk. To keep a branch alive always keep some green on a branch you want to keep. Keep small branches close to the trunk, they will be your "spares" for 10 or more years down the road. Hinoki are one of the more difficult conifers to master pruning, because they don't back bud. But they are otherwise easy to grow. Virtually all old Hinoki masterpiece bonsai in Japan and the USA are fairly large, often over 3 feet tall. The reason, they don't back bud, so they must continually get bigger. It is easier to reduce the height of a pine or a spruce than it is to reduce a Hinoki. So for the time being, enjoy the tree like look of your Hinoki now while it is young. Don't necessarily race to do more than a little light pruning on it. You have plenty of raw material that back buds well to work with, you can get away with mostly leaving 'Little John' alone.

The general plan for a generic tree is the first third of its height, or distance from the roots (if its not upright) The first third is trunk, the second third is main branching, the final third is the twigs and leaves or needles. This is a guide, not a rule. Use this guide unless artistic inspiration tells you something different is better. Sounds like it will turn out a generic tree, but trees rarely follow our plans, so it usually turns out a pleasant tree that will have just enough quirks that it will look unique. This can be applied to your Hinoki, and it can be applied to your Ilex.


I'll give you my thoughts on the holly in another post.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Leo. I really appreciate it. I think my inclination has been "I have to be doing something to the trees" and I need reminding that it's okay to watch them and learn how they grow. Also, I think I fear losing branches that get shaded out with the 'Little John' but so far this hasn't been an issue. Thanks again. I look forward to your feedback on the holly.

 

[hinmo24t]

I like your style, dude.

That trampoline makes my daughter happy, so I don't hate it but I sure want to hate it. I definitely wouldn't call it "Zen."

Yep, it is indeed the variety of "trees" that keeps my mind, uh, limber .

time to uppot that trampoline to fullsize too. had a lot of fun with one when i was fortunate as a kid
to have one with my sister

 

[hinmo24t]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Leo. I really appreciate it. I think my inclination has been "I have to be doing something to the trees" and I need reminding that it's okay to watch them and learn how they grow. Also, I think I fear losing branches that get shaded out with the 'Little John' but so far this hasn't been an issue. Thanks again. I look forward to your feedback on the holly.

thats a nice looking hinoki i think, good buy. nice pines and country in the other shots

 

[El Duderino]

thats a nice looking hinoki i think, good buy. nice pines and country in the other shots

Thanks hinmo24t, appreciate it. Yes, we are very lucky to live in a beautiful natural and wooded area. The trees really keep my yard cool in the summer. We also have a great variety of pine and deciduous in the canopy.

 

[El Duderino]

Next up: Japanese Black Pines #1 and #2

I purchased these trees from the $.99 FB auction. They were twisted up like corkscrews when I got them. I'm not terribly fond of this style as it looks manufactured and trite. But what to do instead? I've no idea. I know these trees need a lot of development. Based on what I've learned to this point, I will start with the trunk, then build taper, then worry about branching. Well, I can get more into that later. First, here are the two trees on the day I received them (they were about two weeks late so the seller kindly included a nice little European hornbeam):



The JBP #1 on the right had much darker needles when it arrived; additionally, JBP #2 had what looked like some needle cast. I'm assuming it was just a little less healthy and that's the difference in needle color. But I'm not entirely sure that's the case.

JBP #1 - 7/21/2021


JBP #2 - 7/21/2021



The first thing I did is cover the roots in some fern moss from my yard in order to protect them and keep them cool. It has been a really useful topping for me this summer and not caused any issues that I've seen yet. I then tried to uncoil them from the unnatural screw shape they were in. Here they are today:

JBP #2 - 8/13/2021



JBP #1 - 8/13/2021



I'm interested in recommendations on how to best develop these trees (would love to hear from @Leo in N E Illinois, @Adair M or anyone else who'd like to chime in). My initial thought is to put them into an Anderson flat and just let them grow wild to develop the trunk. I'm sure they need to grow out some before chopping is appropriate. Either way, excited to have them. Thanks to anyone who can offer guidance.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Next up: Soft-touch Holly, Ilex crenata, I believe.

Please provide feedback on this tree so far. I know it's got a long way to go but I am eager to hear if you all think I am on the right path. Please provide unbridled input as I am eager to learn.

Found this at a visit to Reaves Nursery Farm in Aberdeen, NC. I went there with @JoeR back in mid June and he helped me scope out some good material. Here it is a day or so after I brought it home:

View attachment 390953View attachment 390955

It's really hard to tell from the all-but-worthless second picture (above) but Joe and I were hunting a trunk. The idea behind buying this (I think it was ~$30 if I remember correctly) was that it could become a decent tree in a pot in a relatively short amount of time. The trunk is already grown out. Most of the development that needs to occur would be in the branches.

With such a developed trunk, my thought was that the design could reflect a big lone tree in a field--the kind you take naps or enjoy a picnic under. So, after a few days staring at it, I started some light shaping. I had a rough idea but truly was just winging it, trying to get an understanding of the makeup of the tree. Here are some progression pics:

View attachment 390968

View attachment 390969

View attachment 390971

Above picture is after the first pruning on 7/17. Unlike most of my pruning exercises to this point, I liked the direction this one was going. So, I continued over the next few days, hopefully continuing to improve both branch selection and shape. The truth is, though, I continued to not be entirely sure what I was doing. Generally, I wanted to bring it into a shape that made sense without losing key branches I may need later. I cleaned tons of old dead leaves from the interior and started to open it up to encourage young new shoots closer to the trunk.

View attachment 390975View attachment 390976View attachment 390978

Finally, here is the tree as of this evening. I'm really excited that it took the pruning, however light it may have been, and is now showing new growth. I think my main issue is not really understanding what to do next and how this species will respond to whatever else may be required. Thanks for any input.

View attachment 390979

I was going to respectfully disagree with my friend @rockm , about reducing this to a single leader or trunk line. My reasoning is that a single trunk line is really a conifer design. Especially prior to 2005 or so, many deciduous trees were butchered into having a single trunk line. In nature, the vast majority of deciduous broadleaf trees are more or less variations on a broom design. The "formal broom" will have an unbranched trunk, then all at the same level, a cluster of branches, usually more than 5 or 6 branches, all at the same point. The trunk of the "formal broom" is bolt upright. The branches go up and arch out resulting in a wine glass profile below the domed top of the foliage.

The "informal broom" is less rigid. Walter Pall is a big proponent of this type of shape. Branches come off the trunk at various levels and arch out. The trunk does not have to be perfectly upright, at some point two branches the same diameter become the origin of a broad, spread out apex. More or less like the "Formal Broom" the "informal broom" has no well defined apex.

Another version of the "informal broom" is where the trunk splits to 2 subtrunks, then both subtrunks split again into a total of 4 subtrunks, which split again into 8 subtrunks and so on. They arch up and out the whole way up, much like a "formal broom". The pattern, 2,4,,8,16, 32, 64 ....... on into infinity is a very common natural branching pattern. It quickly gives you nice fine ramification. I saw many an American elm shaped like this, when I was a kid, before the late 1960's dutch elm disease wiped them out. It is a "naturalistic design" because it does occur in nature.

Not having a well defined apex, makes many, many, "old school" USA bonsai hobbyists crazy. The newer crop of Japanese trained USA professionals and Walter Pall trained students all are much more comfortable these days with the "informal broom" being the most common choice for deciduous trees.

So my initial thought was to recommend doing an informal broom, where branches are chosen to be at slightly different levels. If you have 2 branches at exactly the same level, eliminate one. This would create the first of the 2 general types of informal broom styles I described.

HOWEVER, I know RockM is growing bonsai likely within 100 or so miles of you, I know he knows the growth rate of various Ilex, as he has worked with many. In my neighborhood, which is zone 5b, Ilex crenata is only marginally hardy, and grows slowly. Your growing season is much longer than mine, and winters are less harsh, that can make all the difference in the world. So as I write all this, I realize that RockM's suggestion would allow a wide range of options to develop over time. It would take 5 or more years to make any of my broom suggestions work. It might not take all that much longer to make RockM's suggestion work.

My suggestion is get this tree in front of @JoeR or bring it with you to the first or second "in person" meeting of your local bonsai club. And see what other people thing. Definitely a great root base and trunk. These are the strong positive features of this tree. There are several good directions that can be taken. When you go over the tree with them, have paper and pencil, draw out different designs. Draw out what might happen as a response to RockM's prune to a single trunk line. Draw out different versions of "broom" styles. Read up on broom styles.

Key with making drawings, is to draw only the branches that are actually there. Do them in one color or texture, then the "wished for future branches" in a different color or texture. I was surprised at how often when I tried to draw the tree in front of me the "wished for" branches would appear as if they were already there in the original, in other words, I was putting into my drawings branches that were not there. LOL

As soon as you have done your homework, and settled in a which of 3 or more viable options YOU like, you can get to work on this one.

Note, I would separate repotting from styling by at least one year. If you style this tree first (my recommendation) don't repot until the tree has had a year or two to recover. If you want to repot to an Anderson flat or training box in spring, don't style it now, do the repot in spring 2022, then style in 2023 or 2024.

About "inverse taper" or knobs growing in a trunk line. RockM's concern is real, but it does take time for inverse taper to develop, and with time inverse taper and or knobs and lumps can be fixed, usually by adding more girth in a controlled manner to the size of the tree. Many new to bonsai get overly concerned about inverse taper. You do have a few years to get corrections under way. You don't have to chop the tree up this week, or even next year. But eventually tapper issues need to be addressed. So get out your note pad and draw, or take pictures and play with your photo editor. Talk with Joe. Continue your conversation here with Rock M.

 

[El Duderino]

I was going to respectfully disagree with my friend @rockm , about reducing this to a single leader or trunk line. My reasoning is that a single trunk line is really a conifer design. Especially prior to 2005 or so, many deciduous trees were butchered into having a single trunk line. In nature, the vast majority of deciduous broadleaf trees are more or less variations on a broom design. The "formal broom" will have an unbranched trunk, then all at the same level, a cluster of branches, usually more than 5 or 6 branches, all at the same point. The trunk of the "formal broom" is bolt upright. The branches go up and arch out resulting in a wine glass profile below the domed top of the foliage.

The "informal broom" is less rigid. Walter Pall is a big proponent of this type of shape. Branches come off the trunk at various levels and arch out. The trunk does not have to be perfectly upright, at some point two branches the same diameter become the origin of a broad, spread out apex. More or less like the "Formal Broom" the "informal broom" has no well defined apex.

Another version of the "informal broom" is where the trunk splits to 2 subtrunks, then both subtrunks split again into a total of 4 subtrunks, which split again into 8 subtrunks and so on. They arch up and out the whole way up, much like a "formal broom". The pattern, 2,4,,8,16, 32, 64 ....... on into infinity is a very common natural branching pattern. It quickly gives you nice fine ramification. I saw many an American elm shaped like this, when I was a kid, before the late 1960's dutch elm disease wiped them out. It is a "naturalistic design" because it does occur in nature.

Not having a well defined apex, makes many, many, "old school" USA bonsai hobbyists crazy. The newer crop of Japanese trained USA professionals and Walter Pall trained students all are much more comfortable these days with the "informal broom" being the most common choice for deciduous trees.

So my initial thought was to recommend doing an informal broom, where branches are chosen to be at slightly different levels. If you have 2 branches at exactly the same level, eliminate one. This would create the first of the 2 general types of informal broom styles I described.

HOWEVER, I know RockM is growing bonsai likely within 100 or so miles of you, I know he knows the growth rate of various Ilex, as he has worked with many. In my neighborhood, which is zone 5b, Ilex crenata is only marginally hardy, and grows slowly. Your growing season is much longer than mine, and winters are less harsh, that can make all the difference in the world. So as I write all this, I realize that RockM's suggestion would allow a wide range of options to develop over time. It would take 5 or more years to make any of my broom suggestions work. It might not take all that much longer to make RockM's suggestion work.

My suggestion is get this tree in front of @JoeR or bring it with you to the first or second "in person" meeting of your local bonsai club. And see what other people thing. Definitely a great root base and trunk. These are the strong positive features of this tree. There are several good directions that can be taken. When you go over the tree with them, have paper and pencil, draw out different designs. Draw out what might happen as a response to RockM's prune to a single trunk line. Draw out different versions of "broom" styles. Read up on broom styles.

Key with making drawings, is to draw only the branches that are actually there. Do them in one color or texture, then the "wished for future branches" in a different color or texture. I was surprised at how often when I tried to draw the tree in front of me the "wished for" branches would appear as if they were already there in the original, in other words, I was putting into my drawings branches that were not there. LOL

As soon as you have done your homework, and settled in a which of 3 or more viable options YOU like, you can get to work on this one.

Note, I would separate repotting from styling by at least one year. If you style this tree first (my recommendation) don't repot until the tree has had a year or two to recover. If you want to repot to an Anderson flat or training box in spring, don't style it now, do the repot in spring 2022, then style in 2023 or 2024.

About "inverse taper" or knobs growing in a trunk line. RockM's concern is real, but it does take time for inverse taper to develop, and with time inverse taper and or knobs and lumps can be fixed, usually by adding more girth in a controlled manner to the size of the tree. Many new to bonsai get overly concerned about inverse taper. You do have a few years to get corrections under way. You don't have to chop the tree up this week, or even next year. But eventually tapper issues need to be addressed. So get out your note pad and draw, or take pictures and play with your photo editor. Talk with Joe. Continue your conversation here with Rock M.

Thanks for the thorough write up, Leo. It’s especially informative to learn about the informal broom style as if not heard of it before.

I’m not much of an artist (though I am trying to learn) but do have photoshop skills. I like your idea of styling the tree first. Mainly because I’m afraid that putting it off is giving into my angst over styling a tree. At some point I have to “do” to learn.

It’s also reassuring to know that there’s time to correct the inverse taper issue. The new growth over the last two weeks also seems to indicate these are faster growers here in my zone. I’ll continue my conversations with @rockm and @JoeR and come up with a plan for this tree. Thanks again for the guidance.

 

[rockm]

I was going to respectfully disagree with my friend @rockm , about reducing this to a single leader or trunk line. My reasoning is that a single trunk line is really a conifer design. Especially prior to 2005 or so, many deciduous trees were butchered into having a single trunk line. In nature, the vast majority of deciduous broadleaf trees are more or less variations on a broom design. The "formal broom" will have an unbranched trunk, then all at the same level, a cluster of branches, usually more than 5 or 6 branches, all at the same point. The trunk of the "formal broom" is bolt upright. The branches go up and arch out resulting in a wine glass profile below the domed top of the foliage.

The "informal broom" is less rigid. Walter Pall is a big proponent of this type of shape. Branches come off the trunk at various levels and arch out. The trunk does not have to be perfectly upright, at some point two branches the same diameter become the origin of a broad, spread out apex. More or less like the "Formal Broom" the "informal broom" has no well defined apex.

Another version of the "informal broom" is where the trunk splits to 2 subtrunks, then both subtrunks split again into a total of 4 subtrunks, which split again into 8 subtrunks and so on. They arch up and out the whole way up, much like a "formal broom". The pattern, 2,4,,8,16, 32, 64 ....... on into infinity is a very common natural branching pattern. It quickly gives you nice fine ramification. I saw many an American elm shaped like this, when I was a kid, before the late 1960's dutch elm disease wiped them out. It is a "naturalistic design" because it does occur in nature.

Not having a well defined apex, makes many, many, "old school" USA bonsai hobbyists crazy. The newer crop of Japanese trained USA professionals and Walter Pall trained students all are much more comfortable these days with the "informal broom" being the most common choice for deciduous trees.

So my initial thought was to recommend doing an informal broom, where branches are chosen to be at slightly different levels. If you have 2 branches at exactly the same level, eliminate one. This would create the first of the 2 general types of informal broom styles I described.

HOWEVER, I know RockM is growing bonsai likely within 100 or so miles of you, I know he knows the growth rate of various Ilex, as he has worked with many. In my neighborhood, which is zone 5b, Ilex crenata is only marginally hardy, and grows slowly. Your growing season is much longer than mine, and winters are less harsh, that can make all the difference in the world. So as I write all this, I realize that RockM's suggestion would allow a wide range of options to develop over time. It would take 5 or more years to make any of my broom suggestions work. It might not take all that much longer to make RockM's suggestion work.

My suggestion is get this tree in front of @JoeR or bring it with you to the first or second "in person" meeting of your local bonsai club. And see what other people thing. Definitely a great root base and trunk. These are the strong positive features of this tree. There are several good directions that can be taken. When you go over the tree with them, have paper and pencil, draw out different designs. Draw out what might happen as a response to RockM's prune to a single trunk line. Draw out different versions of "broom" styles. Read up on broom styles.

Key with making drawings, is to draw only the branches that are actually there. Do them in one color or texture, then the "wished for future branches" in a different color or texture. I was surprised at how often when I tried to draw the tree in front of me the "wished for" branches would appear as if they were already there in the original, in other words, I was putting into my drawings branches that were not there. LOL

As soon as you have done your homework, and settled in a which of 3 or more viable options YOU like, you can get to work on this one.

Note, I would separate repotting from styling by at least one year. If you style this tree first (my recommendation) don't repot until the tree has had a year or two to recover. If you want to repot to an Anderson flat or training box in spring, don't style it now, do the repot in spring 2022, then style in 2023 or 2024.

About "inverse taper" or knobs growing in a trunk line. RockM's concern is real, but it does take time for inverse taper to develop, and with time inverse taper and or knobs and lumps can be fixed, usually by adding more girth in a controlled manner to the size of the tree. Many new to bonsai get overly concerned about inverse taper. You do have a few years to get corrections under way. You don't have to chop the tree up this week, or even next year. But eventually tapper issues need to be addressed. So get out your note pad and draw, or take pictures and play with your photo editor. Talk with Joe. Continue your conversation here with Rock M.

I'd respectfully mention that the inverse taper is already well on its way here. It already needs reduction...;-)

 

[El Duderino]

Hope everyone had a great weekend. Time for another tree; or, in this case, three trees. Next up: the Hornbeams. Specifically, a Japanese, European, and American Hornbeam.

Japanese Hornbeam
Carpinus japonica
Purchased from $0.99 Bonsai Auction on Facebook for around $40

3/31/2021



4/1/2021



5/29/2021



6/17/2021 - After a midseason haircut



8/4/2021 - Crazy growth again.



This tree will get chopped again in late winter/early spring. It's too tall and there is a too-long section of trunk. Just need to decide on the new leader, there are lots of options. After the chop, I plan to sort the roots out and repot into an Anderson flat.

American Hornbeam
Carpinus caroliniana
Purchased on $0.99 Bonsai Auction on Facebook (along with a small larch) for $5 + $11 shipping; really surprised mine was the winning bid

8/7/2021



European Hornbeam
Carpinus betulus
Free gift from late shipment of two JBP on $0.99 Bonsai Auction

8/14/2021



Obviously both the American and European Hornbeams need a lot of growing out. I plan to up-pot both of them into either a 10"x10" pond basket or an Anderson flat. I am looking forward to working all three of these trees. While they are all very similar, each has its own unique characteristics, i.e. bark color, leaf shape, leaf color, etc.