Eisei-En summer sale

[Sansokuu]

Thats where Oregan and mirai is right, in the pnw. Often heard Ryan refer to it as the nursery capital of the US, I guess if youre in that region and not finding any gems, youre not looking hard enough
For those saying we cant find any stuff like that.

Yes, Pacific Northwest is generally Washington/Oregon. Mirai is on our side of town. I think folks out here buying trees from Bjorn have their reasons. On the other hand, I hear conifers are harder to come by on the east coast. Even heard from someone Massachusetts might ban the sale of black pines because they are invasive??

 

[BobbyLane]

@BobbyLane I'm also wondering if the availability of nursery stock is a bit different between the US and UK too. A very large proportion of deciduous (and increasingly conifers too) trees at nursery centers here are grafted specialty cultivars and/or grown as telephone polls for the first 3 feet. I think many of the smaller growing operations folded during the recession we had around 2008 and most of what is left are the large cookie-cutter grafted landscape tree growers. Of course you can still find some gems, but at least around me I'll look at 100+ larger deciduous trees that are low-potential before I find one decent tree.

It is to an extent for certain species. We use a vast amount of hedging here, you can find many nurseries that just specialise in hedging material, so hawthorn, taxus, field maple, privet, hornbeam and beech are all readily available. Many are imported from Europe, Italy is a big supplier of hornbeam and beech for a few places I visit. Holland sends over a lot of japanese maples to some garden centres I visit. You guys dont have much need for hedging material, maybe there is something else you can tap into.
I mean once I locate a nursery that has raw stock, I would have no problem driving for 2 hours to get there, because it will still turn out to be a better investment than if id spent more from an online vendor, thats kinda how I see it.

 

[roberthu]

Maybe I am missing something. But for much low prices, I can get similar material from many sites like driftwood bonsai or local nurseries. I don't think anything Eisei-En lists are anything but early stage materials. And some are very difficult materials like the straight trunk maple that got chopped. Those can be found in many big box stores for 5% - 10% of listed prices. Just because the seller is well known doesn't make the materials top quality, at least to me.
I think it's the same that some people follow certain singers and some people enjoy just the songs.

 

[Maros]

It is to an extent for certain species. We use a vast amount of hedging here, you can find many nurseries that just specialise in hedging material, so hawthorn, taxus, field maple, privet, hornbeam and beech are all readily available. Many are imported from Europe, Italy is a big supplier of hornbeam and beech for a few places I visit. Holland sends over a lot of japanese maples to some garden centres I visit. You guys dont have much need for hedging material, maybe there is something else you can tap into.
I mean once I locate a nursery that has raw stock, I would have no problem driving for 2 hours to get there, because it will still turn out to be a better investment than if id spent more from an online vendor, thats kinda how I see it.

I remember from my stay in UK a lot of old hedges everywhere in the countryside. I can imagine it could be source of decent material when new construction is done somewhere and roads have to be made wider or so. Curious if it is viable option for you.

 

[BobbyLane]

I remember from my stay in UK a lot of old hedges everywhere in the countryside. I can imagine it could be source of decent material when new construction is done somewhere and roads have to be made wider or so. Curious if it is viable option for you.

Its definitely an option, Maros. Just a matter of timing, if you can get in and ask the site workers before everything is cleared, but yes im always on the lookout

 

[Shogun610]

If I could afford it I would have bought the shortleaf pine and would have the experience to develop myself , along w the other trees on that sale. But , I’m not a money bags like some of you all , so good for you who will curate the trees.
Luckily in Bonsai you can still get away with having to be more resourceful and hustle to get what you need like material/ pots etc.

 

[Shogun610]

Maybe I am missing something. But for much low prices, I can get similar material from many sites like driftwood bonsai or local nurseries. I don't think anything Eisei-En lists are anything but early stage materials. And some are very difficult materials like the straight trunk maple that got chopped. Those can be found in many big box stores for 5% - 10% of listed prices. Just because the seller is well known doesn't make the materials top quality, at least to me.
I think it's the same that some people follow certain singers and some people enjoy just the songs.

Eisei-En is light years better than Driftwood Bonsai lol and material is not as early as you think.

 

[NaoTK]

Are trees getting removed as they are sold or is nothing sold yet? I don't see "SOLD" anywhere

 

[rockm]

Maybe I am missing something. But for much low prices, I can get similar material from many sites like driftwood bonsai or local nurseries. I don't think anything Eisei-En lists are anything but early stage materials. And some are very difficult materials like the straight trunk maple that got chopped. Those can be found in many big box stores for 5% - 10% of listed prices. Just because the seller is well known doesn't make the materials top quality, at least to me.
I think it's the same that some people follow certain singers and some people enjoy just the songs.

You've missed quite a lot if you think all those maples are are just trunk chopped nursery trees. They're not and while the prices are juuuust a bit high, I think they're pretty good for what they are.

For instance, this straight trunked chopped air layer has an exceptional nebari. Better than ANY I've seen in a nursery grown tree. The person that air layered knew WTF they were doing. They got even roots all around the trunk and knew how to thin them out to get a flat even flow of roots in 360 degrees--which as anyone who has air layered a tree knows, is a challenge.

Getting the nebari right is almost 80-90 percent of making a tree. It is that important. Branches come later and aren't all that hard to get set. Most anything you do with this tree from now on will likely be successful because of that nebari.

You can get lower priced materials from places like Driftwood Bonsai and big box stores, but you get what you pay for. I took a spin through Diftwoods site, has nice material, but not comparable. Roots and nebari on most of what I saw range from meh to a mess...You will spend five to ten years sorting some of that out, depending on species and individual tree.

 

[rockm]

For the type of style the Bjorn maple tree is, it definitely requires taper, but its clear it has some inverse taper here
View attachment 499691
The trident stump I posted wouldnt require taper, just a large crown. What youd be paying for is a gnarly, fat stump with powerful nebari. To my eyes the maple here is essentially just a pole/broomstick, which you could find in many nurseries, if you look hard enough youd often find some gems with decent nebari. Tridents in any form are highly coveted across the US which is probably why the vendor can charge what he is charging and people will scream great value. As we've seen here.
View attachment 499692

This comparison is kind of apples to oranges. A Japanese maple is not a trident maple. Tridents are more easily grown out than Japanese maples. JMs take more time and mistakes are more noticeable.

As for the upper portion of the JM mentioned, you can't really make that assumption based on the photos provided. That inverse taper is not "clear" to me. What is clear to me is that a leaf obscures the bend and it COULD have inverse taper, or it COULD have pretty good taper. There's not enough info to make that judgement. If I wanted to buy the tree, I'd ask Bjorn for some more detailed photos, which I'm sure he's be happy to provide. I'd be extremely surprised if he refused that kind of request.

 

[Ply]

Are trees getting removed as they are sold or is nothing sold yet? I don't see "SOLD" anywhere

They get removed when they are sold.

 

[rockm]

Yes, Pacific Northwest is generally Washington/Oregon. Mirai is on our side of town. I think folks out here buying trees from Bjorn have their reasons. On the other hand, I hear conifers are harder to come by on the east coast. Even heard from someone Massachusetts might ban the sale of black pines because they are invasive??

It will be illegal for nurseries to sell Japanese Black Pine in Massachusetts by 2025. Their sale is being phased out because they are threatening native pine habitats particularly along the coast and the cape, where habitats are being taken over by the species. Apparently, the species not only grows like a weed, it is killed by a bark beetle and leaves standing carcasses that are fire hazards.

 

[WavyGaby]

Ha, now this is comical!

I clearly have no clue how much time, effort, how or where to collect in the rocky mts. That is what those western species are worth more to me. It would be cool to pay for a trip with a tour guide and try myself though. You seem to have the collecting knowledge and locality so maybe the monetary value you assign to yamadori is a bit less. Just trying to make a point, the number five was an arbitrary number.

 

[BobbyLane]

You've missed quite a lot if you think all those maples are are just trunk chopped nursery trees. They're not and while the prices are juuuust a bit high, I think they're pretty good for what they are.

For instance, this straight trunked chopped air layer has an exceptional nebari. Better than ANY I've seen in a nursery grown tree. The person that air layered knew WTF they were doing. They got even roots all around the trunk and knew how to thin them out to get a flat even flow of roots in 360 degrees--which as anyone who has air layered a tree knows, is a challenge.

Getting the nebari right is almost 80-90 percent of making a tree. It is that important. Branches come later and aren't all that hard to get set. Most anything you do with this tree from now on will likely be successful because of that nebari.

You can get lower priced materials from places like Driftwood Bonsai and big box stores, but you get what you pay for. I took a spin through Diftwoods site, has nice material, but not comparable. Roots and nebari on most of what I saw range from meh to a mess...You will spend five to ten years sorting some of that out, depending on species and individual tree.

You'd be essentially just paying for a good nebari on that tree, I dont see much other endearing features it has to offer. You may not find a nursery tree with such a developed nebari obviously because theyre not worked on by bonsai people. But you can easily find one with a similar trunk and a potentially great nebari that just needs time put into it, like this maple has had. Ive showed a fair few examples that have pretty good starting roots. If a tree has a good leafless structure, usually the vendor will want to show it off, since its a great USP, in this case im going to go with my judgement.

 

[rockm]

You'd be essentially just paying for a good nebari on that tree, I dont see much other endearing features it has to offer. You may not find a nursery tree with such a developed nebari obviously because theyre not worked on by bonsai people. But you can easily find one with a similar trunk and a potentially great nebari that just needs time put into it, like this maple has had. Ive showed a fair few examples that have pretty good starting roots. If a tree has a good leafless structure, usually the vendor will want to show it off, since its a great USP, in this case im going to go with my judgement.

"potentially great nebari that just needs time put into it, like this maple has had."

Well, that's the rub ain't it? Time? Finding the one at a nursery among thousands with "pretty good roots," worked by people who don't understand bonsai, and then managing it, or planting it out, or grafting new roots in place for the next five-10 years?

and FWIW, I don't think Bjorn is selling trees now to somehow pull a fast one because you can't see the tops because of the leaves. The sale probably has more to do with the need for cash and/or space. I'm sure he will email or text additional photos.

"You'd be essentially just paying for a good nebari on that tree"
Well, yeah, you would.

 

[BobbyLane]

"potentially great nebari that just needs time put into it, like this maple has had."

Well, that's the rub ain't it? Time? Finding the one at a nursery among thousands with "pretty good roots," worked by people who don't understand bonsai, and then managing it, or planting it out, or grafting new roots in place for the next five-10 years?

and FWIW, I don't think Bjorn is selling trees now to somehow pull a fast one because you can't see the tops because of the leaves. The sale probably has more to do with the need for cash and/or space. I'm sure he will email or text additional photos.

"You'd be essentially just paying for a good nebari on that tree"
Well, yeah, you would.

If you have the outlay, there is nothing wrong with paying for the effort/work someone else has put in. Again though, to my eye the rest of the tree has not much to offer. Its just a broomstick with a great nebari.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Any reason why Bjorn doesn't ship? Is that something to be expected at the Nationals? (If I went, I would would be flying and would need the tree(s) shipped).

 

[WavyGaby]

Fair enough. I could tell these two were imports even before clicking on them, but fair play in the description it says the branch structure was rebuilt. You cant tell much about was done from the in leaf photos though. To me the branches just look like how theyd be sent over as imports. Id imagine some pruning has been done though.
The conifers look great, im not clued up on conifer rates so wasnt really referring to those. But I can see some high quality yamadori in there.

I'm sorry, you are right about the tridents being imports. The J.maples are not.

I'm sure there are better rates on conifer onsite or at auction but the prices are competitive and consistent with the price of other pros or online shops.

 

[Kanorin]

I clearly have no clue how much time, effort, how or where to collect in the rocky mts. That is what those western species are worth more to me. It would be cool to pay for a trip with a tour guide and try myself though. You seem to have the collecting knowledge and locality so maybe the monetary value you assign to yamadori is a bit less. Just trying to make a point, the number five was an arbitrary number.

Many of these stunted and interesting looking yamadori attained their shape because they grew in very harsh conditions. They don't grow like this in Denver. Add a half tank of gas plus a 2-5 mile hike with a heavy tree on your back to the equation for pricing trees like that. Furthermore, in many areas collection on public lands is not allowed, so often collectors cultivate relationships with private landowners and may pay them a small fee for the ability to collect. And looks like all/most of these yamadori were collected in 2022 or earlier, which means they have survived the toughest part of their transition already.

 

[BobbyLane]

Ill take a punt, the said maple will look similar to this but without the taper, branch structure and proportions. You can obviously do that bit yourself over time. But these thick areas would concern me.