Dying elm???

[Adair M]

He's not trying to be funny.

You can grow "tropicals" , like a focus, indoors. Elms, not so much.

 

[Wiccid]

Do you have a nursery that sells Bonsai? I drove 2 hours last month to visit one and learned so much! Look around, ask questions and pick a plant that LIKES to be indoor. Also, do an Internet search for classes in your area. I know I learn much faster by doing!

 

[coh]

I live in the northeast US. Soil doesn't look good, huh. I have led growlights, not fluorescents, btw and I do test the soil w/ a moisture meter to double check water logging in the soil.

If I start over w/ a new elm, is there anyone who has anything positive to say about keeping it indoors? How would some of u go about that?
Btw, I really appreciate the informative responses from everyone, thank you!

What kind of LED growlights? Unless you've got some pretty high-powered stuff, you are probably getting a lot less light on the plant than you think, especially the lower and interior parts. Soil does look pretty organic and wet in the photo. As for those moisture meters, I think they are calibrated to regular potting soil and may not be very accurate in more coarse bonsai soil.

As for whether you can grow a chinese elm indoors...I have heard conflicting information. Certainly you can try, but be prepared to have to experiment and probably lose some plants until you get the conditions good enough. You might want to check out the following two links:

1) http://www.fukubonsai.com/2b2a2a.html This guy (Jack Wikle) grows a lot of things indoors that people say won't survive (like junipers). He does it using fluorescent lights. But, his trees are really miniatures, and it's easier to get even light distribution for small plants (you put them very close to the fluorescent tubes). I don't see chinese elm in his list of species, but pretty sure he grows them.

2) http://www.bonsaimary.com/growing-bonsai-trees-indoors.html Mary Miller lists chinese elm as a species suitable for indoor growing, but doesn't say much more about them.

Overall, though...you'd be better off with a ficus or other tropical/semi-tropical species.

 

[timeleft]

Even a Ficus can be difficult indoors. Much more prone to disease and leaf loss (due to lack of light penetration). I have also realized that moisture meters don't work with bonsai soil since it is mostly a rocky substrate. So much so, that if your meter is working you have too much soil in your mixture and need to add more inorganic substrate.

Indoors is difficult with out HPS lighting and high energy bills. You'll be able to sustain life with fluorescents/LED but will not see the same growing patterns compared to having the tree outside.

With that said, some of my elms I will put indoors near a window and light to induce budding but as soon as temps are consistently above 40 degrees they go back outside (I winter in an attached garage that never goes below 30).

 

[Elmstien]

I have a 12x12 led panel suspended an inch or so above the plant. It is extremely bright, it would be painful to look at directly. I dont have the exact light output levels for it.

 

[coh]

Where in the NE are you? How tall is the tree? Looks fairly tall, those LEDs may be providing lots of light to the top but not much to the lower parts of the tree. Can you post a pic of the whole thing? Have you ever repotted or is it in the soil it came with? As others have noted, the soil looks wet and organic and you could be rotting the roots (among other things). An emergency repot may be in order but we do need more info.

 

[Elmstien]

Ok, so here is a better picture. Try and keep in mind that I watered the soil just before taking the picture. I live in New Jersey.

I repotted once using what was marketed as bonsai soil, though a bit of sand and perlite were added to create more soil.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Sorry, that tree certainly looks gone.

The thing people don't understand about LEDs, is that you can't just buy one off eBay and expect it to work for a tree. Most LEDs are made for marijuana plants and give off a red/pink color light. You have to buy an LED specifically made for the veg stage of plants, or non-MJ plants.

LEDs are also very powerful. They may not get too hot, but you can't place them right above the trees or else you will kill the plant with the light intensity.

 

[coh]

Ok, so here is a better picture. Try and keep in mind that I watered the soil just before taking the picture. I live in New Jersey.

I repotted once using what was marketed as bonsai soil, though a bit of sand and perlite were added to create more soil.

So that's what it looks like right now? What is the total height from the pot to the top of that tallest branch segment? Is the LED on? If so, doesn't look very bright.

Are you able to travel, there should be some clubs in NJ...maybe MACH5 knows if he wants to comment.

 

[Elmstien]

Led wasn't on in the picture. I'd say the tree is b/w fifteen and eighteen inches, but im not there to measure now.

I'd certainly be interested in traveling to bonsai clubs in the nj area.

 

[coh]

Well...if this was my tree, I'd probably pull it out of that soil and take a good look at the roots. If they are rotted away, it's most likely a goner. If they look OK/are growing, I'd repot into a drier/more aggregate based mix, keep the soil moisture down, and give it the best light I could to try to stimulate new growth. Outside in sun (or as much sun as possible) when warm enough, or under the best indoor lighting possible (whether that is a south facing window or grow lights).

Good luck!

 

[Elmstien]

Thank you! I appreciate it.

 

[coh]

The other possibility is, did you have an attack of scale or mites? Scale is usually pretty easy to spot, especially if there are a lot of them (they should still be there if you have them). Mites can be easy to miss if you're not sure what to look for. Both can damage or even kill a tree, especially a weakened one.

 

[Paradox]

I agree with others that posted here.

The soil looks like potting soil with some turface mixed in. Moisture meters work ok with potting soil, no so much with bonsai soil. The best moisture meter known to man is the human finger.

Elms are outdoor trees and will do much better outside during the growing season than inside.

This one looks like it is a goner...sorry

I have one small (about 6 inches tall) Chinese elm which I've had for almost 3 years. It stays outside in the spring, summer and fall and goes in me unheated, attached garage in the winter. It is in a mixture of turface for the small particle size and pine bark. I water it when it is dry.