greenhorn321
Seedling
Alright I think I finally got something to work with. This things about 3 feet tall with a good thick trunk. I'm thinking formal upright. When can I make a trunk cut and thin out a lot of branches?
dwarf alberta spruce
- Thread starter greenhorn321
- Start date
Alright I think I finally got something to work with. This things about 3 feet tall with a good thick trunk. I'm thinking formal upright. When can I make a trunk cut and thin out a lot of branches?
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
You can do the work now, but just a word of caution. Dwarf Alberta Spruce is very difficult material to work with. Do a search here on it and read up.
It's not that it's weak or not hardy. It's the opposite. It's pretty impossible to kill one.
Its biggest problem is its upward-shooting branches. Ninety percent of the branches on your tree will have angles from the trunk that will make them very hard to tame into more lateral positions. to get the branches to set in "pine style" planes requires undercutting the branch at the trunk, wiring in place and hoping the branch doesn't die off.Over a few years, the callusing on the branch cuts "sets" the branch in place. Trying to only use wire on them results in ridiculous-looking "rainbow" branches with no character.
Trunk chops are ineffective if you're planning to grow it out for trunk taper. It will take decades to regrow a new, believable leader. Most people using these kinds of long bushy nursery grown alberta spruces jin the tops out of them to make them look like old tall, forest trees. You will never get noticeable even taper with a trunk chop unless you plant it the ground and do repeated chops there for 10-15 years...
That said, you can probably chop to your heart's content on this tree now. See what you can do with it. Experiment with pulling branches into lateral positions, deadwood features, etc.
It's not that it's weak or not hardy. It's the opposite. It's pretty impossible to kill one.
Its biggest problem is its upward-shooting branches. Ninety percent of the branches on your tree will have angles from the trunk that will make them very hard to tame into more lateral positions. to get the branches to set in "pine style" planes requires undercutting the branch at the trunk, wiring in place and hoping the branch doesn't die off.Over a few years, the callusing on the branch cuts "sets" the branch in place. Trying to only use wire on them results in ridiculous-looking "rainbow" branches with no character.
Trunk chops are ineffective if you're planning to grow it out for trunk taper. It will take decades to regrow a new, believable leader. Most people using these kinds of long bushy nursery grown alberta spruces jin the tops out of them to make them look like old tall, forest trees. You will never get noticeable even taper with a trunk chop unless you plant it the ground and do repeated chops there for 10-15 years...
That said, you can probably chop to your heart's content on this tree now. See what you can do with it. Experiment with pulling branches into lateral positions, deadwood features, etc.
october
Masterpiece
Hello greenhorn321...rockm..gave you some great and very true information about this species.. I started to work on one about a month or so ago. However, it was mostly for fun and for something to work on in between my specimen and better quality trees. Here is the progression of mine. It might give you some ideas. However, since this was just for fun and something to do, I normally would not recommend doing this much work to a conifer.
Pic 1 is as purchased
Pic 2 after pruning, but no wiring
Pic 3 is after wiring and carving
Rob
Pic 1 is as purchased
Pic 2 after pruning, but no wiring
Pic 3 is after wiring and carving
Rob
rockm,
I'm surprized by your statement that they're nearly impossible to kill. They're sold by the thousands here as ornamental trees. Most people use them as ornamentals in pots by their front doors, etc. But I've never seen anyone ever keep them healthy. They slowly decline. And get replaced. People here in Georgia almost treat them as annuals. Like tulips! Our summers are just too hot. We're a long way from Alberta!
I'm surprized by your statement that they're nearly impossible to kill. They're sold by the thousands here as ornamental trees. Most people use them as ornamentals in pots by their front doors, etc. But I've never seen anyone ever keep them healthy. They slowly decline. And get replaced. People here in Georgia almost treat them as annuals. Like tulips! Our summers are just too hot. We're a long way from Alberta!
davetree
Omono
Rob how is your spruce doing after all the work you did on it ?
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
I can only speak for the Alberta spruce that were my first bonsai subjects almost 25 years ago.
During that time I smashed their trunks, broke their limbs, let them dry out, kept them soggy, brutalized their roots every few years, put them in full sun, left them out in five foot snows, had cats pee in the soil....I had to throw them out last year (still very much alive) because I was simply sick of them.
They don't decline here in the landscape with proper maintenance. There are some in yards around me that are 25 - 40 years old, 15-20 feet tall with ten inch trunks.
It is most likely your climate. I'm a bit cooler here in No.Va. and we get some hard winters on occasion. Hot humid summers can take there toll on this species, but the Albertas that I had were pretty indestructible.
During that time I smashed their trunks, broke their limbs, let them dry out, kept them soggy, brutalized their roots every few years, put them in full sun, left them out in five foot snows, had cats pee in the soil....I had to throw them out last year (still very much alive) because I was simply sick of them.
They don't decline here in the landscape with proper maintenance. There are some in yards around me that are 25 - 40 years old, 15-20 feet tall with ten inch trunks.
It is most likely your climate. I'm a bit cooler here in No.Va. and we get some hard winters on occasion. Hot humid summers can take there toll on this species, but the Albertas that I had were pretty indestructible.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Me three and four!
jkd2572
Masterpiece
Killed my first and last one this summer.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Hello greenhorn321...rockm..gave you some great and very true information about this species.. I started to work on one about a month or so ago. However, it was mostly for fun and for something to work on in between my specimen and better quality trees. Here is the progression of mine. It might give you some ideas. However, since this was just for fun and something to do, I normally would not recommend doing this much work to a conifer.
Pic 1 is as purchased
Pic 2 after pruning, but no wiring
Pic 3 is after wiring and carving
Rob
This is a really fine piece of work! I would be very interested in watching the updates as they become available.
TheSteve
Chumono
I agree with Vance, great work. this might be the best alberta spruce I've ever seen. Definitely a fine example for this thread.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
For those who are just getting into bonsai you might want to consider that this fine little beginnings of a bonsai is now about 1/3 the original height of the raw material used in this project. I have been telling new people for years that good bonsai are generally the results of cutting down larger material, to take advantage of trunk size, and not one of growing a tree up into a bonsai, which takes many years and a lot of un-necessary work. It is for this reason I generally exploit the nursery trade mostly because of availability and price. However; in many cases the cut down principle applies to much of the collected tree resource.
bonsaiBlake
Chumono
bump, Rob is this guy still alive?
october
Masterpiece
Nope, this one did not make it. I think it was just too much work. However, I was having a terrible fungus problem that summer. It is possible that it was killed by a fungus. Maybe a combination of the 2. My other spruce, the yamadori style spruce you asked about is doing very well though. I replied in that thread.
Rob
bonsaiBlake
Chumono
I saw that. Glad to see its doing well. sorry this one didn't pull through i was really rooting for it. I havent been a member of this site long, but your art, and ability to create it are amazing.
My girlfriend and I picked up one of these guys at a local nursery this weekend so ive been reading up on them. I'll post some pics of the one i got soon.
Kind of bummed about the timing of when i got it. Im not going to be able to do anything besides a slip pot till this fall then its style time. I did guy wire some of the branches down to let some more light in.
My girlfriend and I picked up one of these guys at a local nursery this weekend so ive been reading up on them. I'll post some pics of the one i got soon.
Kind of bummed about the timing of when i got it. Im not going to be able to do anything besides a slip pot till this fall then its style time. I did guy wire some of the branches down to let some more light in.
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Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Nope, this one did not make it. I think it was just too much work. However, I was having a terrible fungus problem that summer. It is possible that it was killed by a fungus. Maybe a combination of the 2. My other spruce, the yamadori style spruce you asked about is doing very well though. I replied in that thread.
Rob
Spruce are a bit peculiar about too much work done on them at any one time.
RNbonsai
Shohin
Wow, that was a shocker! Looks awesome. Did it survive?Hello greenhorn321...rockm..gave you some great and very true information about this species.. I started to work on one about a month or so ago. However, it was mostly for fun and for something to work on in between my specimen and better quality trees. Here is the progression of mine. It might give you some ideas. However, since this was just for fun and something to do, I normally would not recommend doing this much work to a conifer.
Pic 1 is as purchased
Pic 2 after pruning, but no wiring
Pic 3 is after wiring and carving
Rob
Just saw the hat it didn't- oh well, it was a great styling anyways- I got one gifted to me today. I live in Texas and by the ao Me or iThe summe will be really hard on it
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