Dropping leaves and pushing new growth

[AaronThomas]

Hey all... were going to have a bit of a cold snap tonight so Im bringing in a few trees. I noticed when I placed my ROR elm on the counter it dropped a ton of leaves. The tree is pushing new growth and seems healthy... just wondering if any of you have encountered anything like this. Its the first time I have ever noticed it happening to any of my elms. Maybe I exposed the roots too early...? But its been fine for weeks... or maybe to much fertilizer?... But I'm not doing anything different then I have done in the past.
Any thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks!

 

[AaronThomas]

Maybe should mention it only dropped 1/2 of its leaves this winter.

 

[0soyoung]

A cold snap in Tucson??? Gonna get down to 50F??

Sorry, but I cannot help myself, LOL. I lived in Phoenix for a year. It snowed at Christmas, down to about 3 ft above the ground. It was fun watching the banana palm collapse about 1 foot above the snow line as the snow line descended.

Many 'evergreen' broadleaf plants (cork oaks are one) drop old leaves as the new ones emerge. It doesn't stay warm enough where I am (now) for elms to hold theirs through the winter.

Chill, dude.

 

[AaronThomas]

Hahah!!!
This time of year is weird. We have had snow one day and 80degrees the next!

 

[Don Blackmond]

Any recent changes to its environment? Chinese elm are notorious for self defoliating with sudden environmental changes. Also, look for signs of insects. Spider mites are a common cause but I'm not sure that is an issue in 'zona.

 

[aml1014]

Hahah!!!
This time of year is weird. We have had snow one day and 80degrees the next!

It it only dropped half this is fairly normal. In warmer climates elm trees are basically evergreen and only sheda foliage in spring when growth resumes. I'd just make sure thats old foliage that's falling off (which it looks like all of your new growth is still present).

Aaron

 

[rockm]

Live oaks push off year-old or older leaves as new buds pop in April or so. Those old leaves yellow as this happens. It can look very bad if you're not familiar with the process.

I've also had the same happened with a Catlin Chinese Elm I had a while back. Got the tree at a "Bonsai Shop" and it had been grown in a hothouse all its life. It had never seen seasonal changes. It held onto its leaves through every winter I had it and dropped them all in March, replaced them in April. After ten years or so, it finally died after a particularly harsh winter that saw some below 0 temps.

 

[AaronThomas]

Any recent changes to its environment?

None at all. Weather has been pretty consistent as well.

Also, look for signs of insects.

No signs of insects either.

I'd just make sure thats old foliage that's falling off

I'm pretty sure its older leaves. Its a bit hard to tell because the leaves are not yellowing or drying out... just falling.

It held onto its leaves through every winter

This particular elm seems to only drop all its leaves if we have had frost in the fall. All the others drop in the fall regardless of a frost or not.

Live oaks push off year-old or older leaves as new buds pop in April or so. Those old leaves yellow as this happens. It can look very bad if you're not familiar with the process.

This elm started pushing new buds back in January and didn't drop anything....also not turning yellow.... think that's why Im a bit concerned.
Hopefully its just the old leaves!!! This is the tree that actually had a ton of mushrooms growing in it a few months ago but I have had shrooms growing in my other pots as well and those trees aren't dropping.
I guess I just need to see what happens.... ill stop fertilizing it for now as well.

 

[rockm]

FWIW, alot of my Catlin Chinese Elm's leaves stayed green through the winter and they just dropped off.

If there's new growth, this isn't worth sweating.

 

[AaronThomas]

If there's new growth, this isn't worth sweating.

Thanks again!

 

[AaronThomas]

So... its been a few day and its still dropping leaves. Just can't figure it out. The tree looks healthy and at this point I can not tell if its dropping its new growth. There are a few buds emerging... not sure if they are continuing to grow or not.
Starting to freak now...

 

[sorce]

freak

It looks Really healthy otherwise.

I wouldn't be too worried.

Is that a current pic?

It put on a lot of growth since the rock?

Sorce

 

[AaronThomas]

It looks Really healthy otherwise.

Hey Sorce! Yep... took that pic a couple of days ago. Its dropped much more since. Ill post another in the AM.
It did have a pretty significant growth spurt since the pics in late January.
Been discussing water retention in soil in another thread and how my soil mix retains more than most (desert thing) ... so now I got root rot bouncing around in my head but I'm not sure it presents itself in this way.

 

[sorce]

Hey Sorce! Yep... took that pic a couple of days ago. Its dropped much more since. Ill post another in the AM.
It did have a pretty significant growth spurt since the pics in late January.
Been discussing water retention in soil in another thread and how my soil mix retains more than most (desert thing) ... so now I got root rot bouncing around in my head but I'm not sure it presents itself in this way.

Some trees, like ficus, and Probly Chinese Elm, seem to have the ability to grow higher roots to sustain themselves as the low ones rot.

Not that this is what is going on....but if it is.....you can likely win the battle.

I'd stick a few chopsticks around, that reach the whole depth. Water in the morning, and check their wet level that night. This way you can gauge how low, and where, you may be trapping water, if at all. And adjust.

Maybe just ripping the pot to drain, maybe watering more!

Still sounds like some old leaves.

Sorce

 

[AaronThomas]

chopsticks

That's a great idea!
The soil was pretty dry this morning so I watered… I just got back inside after sticking my fingers in the soil. Soil is damp but not totally saturated. Really hope the neighbors and see me in my underwear with a flashlight sticking my fingers in a pot at 2 o'clock in the morning LOL! I will check again in the morning.
I tipped the pot bit as well to see if that helps.

 

[sorce]

That's a great idea!

That's not my idea!

And I don't use it!
Where is BVF to call me out?

What is my idea, but also brought on by Carp playing with trees at Starbucks.....
Grab a handful of their stirring sticks!

Sorce

 

[markyscott]

Where is all of the spring growth? My Chinese elms have foot long shoots on them. When I see zero spring shoots and dropping leaves, I suspect root problems. Mushrooms in the pot? Sounds soggy - what's it growing in?

 

[M. Frary]

Sounds like root rot to me.
My seiju did the very same thing.
Pulled it,washed the roots,cut the rotted roots off and got it into inorganic soil. It took off and never looked back until it froze to death last year.
If you do pull it out,rotten roots smell and just a gentle tug will pull the outside or bark of the root off. They will also be a little slimy. Cut the rot out until it's gone.

 

[AaronThomas]

@markyscott
There was actually a ton of growth. My spring started in January so much has hardened off already. I've been using 50% Force compost 40% decomposed granite and 10% sand. I know it's a lot of organics but have never has problems with the mix before. Phoenix bonsai society recommends 50 to 70% aggregate.
@M. Frary
Think I will yank it and re mix the soil with more decomposed granite .
Been using Kellogg's organic potting soil.... Should I try to find something else?
Thanks everyone!

 

[markyscott]

If you had a ton of growth, I t should look like this:



Right now. What happened to it all?