Drastically different soil component sizes?

[Bonsai Noodles]

It seems like heterogeneity in soil particle sizes isn't too worrisome, and especially if you consider how every climate's and tree's individual needs will determine the ideal soil components/sizes, I'm not too afraid of that per se. However, my soil components are very different in size (see picture).

Particle sizes ranges from 15mm lava rock to 4mm DE. Any thoughts on how this might impact growth? I've tried crushing the lava rock to get things somewhat more evenly sized, but that yielded a lot of dust.

Would like to hear all your thoughts.

 

[leatherback]

I have some pots with big differences in size, as that was all I had at the time. I find that the larger particles accumulate at the surface, so smaller sizes move down. The tree does not seem to care.

 

[Bonsai Noodles]

I have some pots with big differences in size, as that was all I had at the time. I find that the larger particles accumulate at the surface, so smaller sizes move down. The tree does not seem to care.

Very reassuring! I might have to be careful with too thick of a point though, given what you said.

 

[leatherback]

In the picture you do not even see the smaller particles!

 

[LemonBonsai]

Very reassuring! I might have to be careful with too thick of a point though, given what you said.

I use a lava rock mix which has bigger pieces and then I use a seperate soil thats made of 50% perlite and 50% oil dri or turface. Which I sift. Never tried mixing them other then sometimes I will put the coarse mix at the bottom for better drainage and then put the turface and perlite mix on top.

 

[BobbyLane]

ive never given it any thought

 

[Mikecheck123]

It seems like heterogeneity in soil particle sizes isn't too worrisome, and especially if you consider how every climate's and tree's individual needs will determine the ideal soil components/sizes, I'm not too afraid of that per se. However, my soil components are very different in size (see picture).

Particle sizes ranges from 15mm lava rock to 4mm DE. Any thoughts on how this might impact growth? I've tried crushing the lava rock to get things somewhat more evenly sized, but that yielded a lot of dust.

Would like to hear all your thoughts.

Uniform particle size is more important than what the particles are made of.

Uniform particle size means uniform drainage and coverage. You don't want some parts of the soil staying too wet and others staying too dry.

It also means a drainage behavior that doesn't shift over time.

Small particles clog up gaps made by larger pieces, so the drainage will eventually act like a mix of all small particles. Which is a problem if it's too small.

 

[Alain BERTRAND]

Small particles clog up gaps made by larger pieces, so the drainage will eventually act like a mix of all small particles. Which is a problem if it's too small.

While I support everything @Mikecheck123 wrote above I support even more the part I quote.

 

[Anthony]

look up - the ball bearing principle.

 

[Vali]

I have a linden planted in particles between about 1 mm and 16mm. It grew insane since last november when it was collected. In the long term it might matter, but in the short term, I don't think it does. All my trees are planted in different particle sizes and they don't seem to mind at all.

 

[Clicio]

C'mon guys, is it so difficult to keep the particles of the soil mix about similar sizes by sifting them?
Laziness apart, my strategy is larger particles for larger plants, medium particles for Shohin, and small particles for very small Mame plants.
Yes, I am one of those who sifts through the three sizes sieves and keep large/medium/small particles in different containers.
Parroting some comments above, "my trees seem to like it".

 

[Vali]

C'mon guys, is it so difficult to keep the particles of the soil mix about similar sizes by sifting them?
Laziness apart, my strategy is larger particles for larger plants, medium particles for Shohin, and small particles for very small Mame plants.
Yes, I am one of those who sifts through the three sizes sieves and keep large/medium/small particles in different containers.
Parroting some comments above, "my trees seem to like it".

Yes, it can be done, but is it really necessary?
Try not to judge those who do things differently. We're here to discuss things and we should remain open minded to other opinions.

 

[Clicio]

Try not to judge those who do things differently.

Am I judging anyone here?
I said MY plants are happy and they don't mind the particles being similar in size.
And different from some of you guys, I do sift my soil.
That's being open minded, no?
Doing things different from you and saying so?

 

[Vali]

Parroting some comments above, "my trees seem to like it".

I found this part of your post to be sarcastic. Please excuse me if I was wrong.
I'm really interested in different opinions on this subject and the last thing I want is to "destroy" this thread

 

[Clicio]

I found this part of your post to be sarcastic. Please excuse me if I was wrong

Not sarcastic at all.
Your plants are happy with mixed sized particles.
My plants are happy with similar sized particles.
So I will keep doing what's been working for me, there is no reason for me to change my strategy, *besides laziness* .
My laziness. Not yours.

 

[Clicio]

C'mon guys, is it so difficult to keep the particles of the soil mix about similar sizes by sifting them?
Laziness apart, my strategy is larger particles for larger plants, medium particles for Shohin, and small particles for very small Mame plants.
Yes, I am one of those who sifts through the three sizes sieves and keep large/medium/small particles in different containers.
Parroting some comments above, "my trees seem to like it".

Perhaps people much more experienced than me could chime in and have a say about their methods, now I am really curious.
@Adair M , @Leo in N E Illinois , @0soyoung , do you always sift, or mix drastically different soil sizes instead?

 

[Adair M]

Perhaps people much more experienced than me could chime in and have a say about their methods, now I am really curious.
@Adair M , @Leo in N E Illinois , @0soyoung , do you always sift, or mix drastically different soil sizes instead?

I always sift. The objective is to have all the particles the same size in the main soil mix.

Those large particles are suitable for being a “drainage layer” at the bottom of the pot.

 

[Alain BERTRAND]

I have a linden planted in particles between about 1 mm and 16mm. It grew insane since last november when it was collected. In the long term it might matter, but in the short term, I don't think it does. All my trees are planted in different particle sizes and they don't seem to mind at all.

Well, horticulture research has well demonstrated the interest of maximizing substrate total porosity for maximum growth. Each time you mix particules of different sizes you diminish porosity. Your trees may seems not to bother, but you are not as close as possible of the optimum, and in the end, this is the sum of all these deviations who impedes growth. It is mostly for tree in development.
For advanced bonsai the game is somewhat different. One may want to slow growth to gain more easily wanted features like small leaves or needles, short internodes and the like. I think that Japanese professionals like the fact that akadama breaks down in a pot with time, creating a "harder" substrate which help to manage mature bonsai. I talked once with a Japanese grower in Shikoku and he really disliked pumice, he told me he was using a mix of akadama and "sand" which shouldn't have good porosity.

 

[Bonsai Noodles]

I always sift. The objective is to have all the particles the same size in the main soil mix.

Those large particles are suitable for being a “drainage layer” at the bottom of the pot.

I heard that the drainage layer can actually harm the plant? Now, I'm a noob, but I read something about how a drainage layer may shift the saturation level of the soil up, rather than actually helping drain the soil more. I think Walter Pall might've even commented one time, saying something akin to, "Modern substrates are already draining."

 

[Mikecheck123]

I heard that the drainage layer can actually harm the plant? Now, I'm a noob, but I read something about how a drainage layer may shift the saturation level of the soil up, rather than actually helping drain the soil more. I think Walter Pall might've even commented one time, saying something akin to, "Modern substrates are already draining."

Correct. It is a huge myth. It actually hurts drainage because of the perched water table that forms at the layer boundary.

It also comes with another severe drawback--roots will often decline to cross the boundary. Thus hampering root development and further risking over saturation.