tmmason10
Omono
John at NE bonsai is great, I'm enrolled in his school. He doesn't typically like tropicals but he does have a few. I thinks private lesson is a great idea though.
Does it HAVE to be outside?
- Thread starter Sherri
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Thank you so much. I know I do not want to be moving the plants a lot so wanted to decide where they were going before moving anyone! I have the schefflera 6 inches under 2 50 watt grow bulbs 12 hours a day -- are these bulbs no good? What's the difference between the grow lights and the fluorescent tube? I have lots of different types of lighting for my tanks so know the different qualities of light. I'm just not sure about these bulbs and what I need to do differently -- well other than replace them with fluorescent light. SO -- could I use a higher watt grow light?
As for the juniper -- he's going with me to the private lesson as will the schefflera so pruning will be done!
So you're in my neck of the woods eh? On the 14th my husband and I are going. He's going to have a very busy hour! We are also planning on taking two pre-bonzai's -- a Mountain Laurel and a Maple. We're jumping in feet first for sure!
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
The "grow bulbs" are probably really not even doing you anything. They're commonly sold as such to trick people into believing they actually assist with growing plants. Most of the time they're doing nothing. Fluorescent bulbs are, IMO, the way to go if you're going to grow indoors. You've also got the option of Metal Halides, but that's a whole other story
Jim, are you advocating bringing it in during the winter???
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Yea -- I was wondering. I do have a par meter so could check it out. I do have a MH light but I am going over to LEDs on my tanks. I am wondering if an LED light would do it.
In NH we regularly get temps in the 0 to 20 degree range and it can stay there for weeks so I think bringing it in is a must. I have to bring in my banana, calla lilies and hibiscus so ... I am assuming the juniper too.
In NH we regularly get temps in the 0 to 20 degree range and it can stay there for weeks so I think bringing it in is a must. I have to bring in my banana, calla lilies and hibiscus so ... I am assuming the juniper too.
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
About the LED lights, check these links out:
http://www.bonsaihunk.us/info/LEDvsFluoresc.html
http://www.bonsaihunk.us/info/LEDvsFluorescll.html
http://www.bonsaihunk.us/info/LEDvsFluoresclll.html
As for the Juniper, it can easily handle low temperatures, now 0F I'm not too sure about. Maybe instead of bringing it in, just keep it sheltered.
http://www.bonsaihunk.us/info/LEDvsFluoresc.html
http://www.bonsaihunk.us/info/LEDvsFluorescll.html
http://www.bonsaihunk.us/info/LEDvsFluoresclll.html
As for the Juniper, it can easily handle low temperatures, now 0F I'm not too sure about. Maybe instead of bringing it in, just keep it sheltered.
milehigh_7
Mister 500,000
Pictures may take me a bit as I upgraded to Lion and photoshop no longer works.
That happened to me a few years ago so I downloaded Gimp and I have never looked back. Free and very powerful and available on all platforms.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Junipers can easily handle temps well below zero F as long as they are out of the sun and wind. Placing it along the north or east side of your house foundation is an option, as is keeping it in an unheated garage or outbuilding. Letting it freeze solid and stay that way in a protected place is the way to go. When I lived in MA, all my temperate conifers and deciduous trees would be put to bed by the end of November, either mulched in to my veggie garden or the floor of my unnattached garage. They'ed freeze by New Years and stay that way until late March or even April...no watering or concerns about light...they don't need it while dormant. Have fun at NEBG and say "Hey" to everyone there for me.
Dave
ps bananas, callalillies and hibiscus are not cold tolerant plants...junipers are
.
Dave
ps bananas, callalillies and hibiscus are not cold tolerant plants...junipers are
.
jk_lewis
Masterpiece
J
She lives "Up There" and I live "Down Here." Our winters don't compare. My junipers never move off my tables, but I seldom get into the single digits (F). I wouldn't really presume to advise her other than to say the plant probably would survive outdoors planted in the ground, but in a pot . . . ??? Even mulched in . . . ????
I never hope to see a winter that cold, so she'd better listen to the folks from whom she is taking lessons on that.
She lives "Up There" and I live "Down Here." Our winters don't compare. My junipers never move off my tables, but I seldom get into the single digits (F). I wouldn't really presume to advise her other than to say the plant probably would survive outdoors planted in the ground, but in a pot . . . ??? Even mulched in . . . ????
I never hope to see a winter that cold, so she'd better listen to the folks from whom she is taking lessons on that.
milehigh_7
Mister 500,000
1) Check out T5 High Output Fluorescent fixtures. You will be pleasantly surprised.
2) Regarding temps please read http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/frzekill.htm
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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My shimpakus have survived -10F for 3 nights in a row and 10 days straight of day time highs in the teens, mulched into the garden and not actually in the soil...frozen solid for almost 4 months. Also, placing them up against the foundation allows heat escaping from the structure to moderate their microclimate, as will keeping them in an outbuilding. It's just my opinion, but I suspect people underestimate the degree of cold their trees are acclimated to, and I suspect more trees that die over the winter were actually weakened during the previous growing season. I also believe that the more complicated people make their overwintering situation, the more likely things can and will go wrong.
Dave...who spent 12 years practicing bonsai in zone 5 and zone 6 MA and kept his trees outside the whole time....though I'm happily practicing bonsai in steamy zone 7b GA now.
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Hey -- his article must be old as LEDs have evolved. The LEDs that I have over my 180 are designed to be upgraded and individual pucks can be replaced. The lifespan of LEDs are actually also driven by how well cooled they are. The heat will shorten the lifespan of a bulb. Plus they have some really nice full spectrum LED grow lights for $100 that fit in regular fixtures so no need to replace fixtures all of the time either. I only looked at the first link because his info is old...because if the bulb lasts 10 years you're looking at $10 a year. Check it out;
http://www.sunshine-systems.com/GrowSpot-LED-Grow-Light-p/gs-spot.htm
Yea -- I just found gimp too but the pics were small enough to upload directly. Thanks! I have to figure out how to use it!
Junipers can easily handle temps well below zero F as long as they are out of the sun and wind. Placing it along the north or east side of your house foundation is an option, as is keeping it in an unheated garage or outbuilding. Letting it freeze solid and stay that way in a protected place is the way to go. When I lived in MA, all my temperate conifers and deciduous trees would be put to bed by the end of November, either mulched in to my veggie garden or the floor of my unnattached garage. They'ed freeze by New Years and stay that way until late March or even April...no watering or concerns about light...they don't need it while dormant. Have fun at NEBG and say "Hey" to everyone there for me.
Dave
ps bananas, callalillies and hibiscus are not cold tolerant plants...junipers are
Well -- Dave -- who now lives in jungle hot Georgia --- I guess it sounds like I can leave it out. Sounds like you also had a good experience at NE Bonsai too. I can't wait!
I actually have T5 fixtures and they are very good but I think I will go with the Sunshine Supply bulbs. I'm a total LED convert. That article on the temps is awesome -- thanks!
october
Masterpiece
Hello Sherri....Regarding the leaving the juniper outside in winter.. There are some factors here not being mentioned. Although junipers need a cold period, there are issues that have to be taken into consideration. One, is the health of a tree. A tree that is not at full health should not be left out all winter in very colds temps. It will almost certaintly finish the tree off. Second, the size and establishment of the tree.. Trees that are smaller and have had work root work done recently should be given a little more protection. Also establishment... older, larger established trees can take harsh winters. Your juniper is very small and young..Also, it may have been root pruned in the last year or so. I do not think you should leave this small, young tree out all winter in a New Hampshire.
Daves trees are older and have been exposed to these conditions for a long time. Therefore, being older and larger and more established.. They became acustomed to his previous New England climate.
For my taste..weather can be too unpredicable... The repeated freezing and thawing throughout the winter really isn't something I allow to happen to my bonsai. Also, in my opinion, it really isn't good for tree in general. It may be tolerated, but that does not mean it is good for it. I also live in New England. However, many of my trees are shohin size..which means smaller trees. Basically, to make it simple, if you can find a spot that is maybe upper 20's to lower 40's for at least 3 months out of the year. Your juniper will do well. Also, during this time, you really do not have to provide and sun..as long as the temps stay in that range, the tree will need very little light.
Just for an example.. These are some of my junipers. They have never been allowed to freeze solid and I have had these for years.
Daves trees are older and have been exposed to these conditions for a long time. Therefore, being older and larger and more established.. They became acustomed to his previous New England climate.
For my taste..weather can be too unpredicable... The repeated freezing and thawing throughout the winter really isn't something I allow to happen to my bonsai. Also, in my opinion, it really isn't good for tree in general. It may be tolerated, but that does not mean it is good for it. I also live in New England. However, many of my trees are shohin size..which means smaller trees. Basically, to make it simple, if you can find a spot that is maybe upper 20's to lower 40's for at least 3 months out of the year. Your juniper will do well. Also, during this time, you really do not have to provide and sun..as long as the temps stay in that range, the tree will need very little light.
Just for an example.. These are some of my junipers. They have never been allowed to freeze solid and I have had these for years.
milehigh_7
Mister 500,000
LEDs are great and getting better all the time... however cost per lumen is quite high still.
Hi October -- That really makes a lot of sense. I was concerned about the size of the tree and thought I would have to bury it in my garden at a minimum. However, in a "normal" winter the ground can freeze at least a foot down so don't know how that would protect it. My basement near the bulkhead stays pretty cool and I have been thinking that might be the spot. I love your trees. How old are they? I hope mine can grow up to be like yours!
You know the cost per lumen is a funky thing to assess because it really depends on the life of the bulb. I put LED fixtures over my 6 foot 180g tank and in the long run I believe, even with the cost of the fixtures, that I will save money. My T5 light that I had over that tank had 14 3 foot bulbs that had to be changed every 8 or 9 months and cost about $300 each time. It cost me about $1800 for the LED fixtures and as long as I make 6 years with the pucks I have, I will break even. The pucks are small "bulbs" each holding three LED lights. Now these are just blue and white and the company has upgraded to full spectrum so due to technology advancements I will upgrade which may put my break-even point out a few years but I'm still in it for the long haul. And my corals grow fine under the LEDs for now, but I think in the long run I do need more colors. And on top of that, I can program thunder storms over my reef! You can totally mimic dawn to dusk lighting conditions with LEDs that you cannot do with any other type of fixture. So perhaps down the line my bonsai's will have their own LED fixtures with a controller that gives them that type of lighting. For now, I'm thinking those Sunshine Supply bulbs will be the way I go.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Temperate trees growing in the ground have the vast majority of their roots in the first 12" of soil...having the soil around their roots frozen for months on end is normal. Larger trees are more resistant to extremes in temp mainly because their pots have more soil/mass which requires more time to be cooled or warmed. Once a tree/pot is mulched, the size of the pot or tree really doesn't matter. If anything, smaller trees are more likely to be covered with snow, which is a great insulator. To avoid freeze/thaw cycles, the key is to keep it out of the sun and mulch the pot up to the lower trunk. I honestly don't ever recall my trees experience any freeze/thawing EXCEPT when I kept them in a 3 season porch...i lost some trees then. Anyway, I believe Rob has kept his trees in an unheated appartment for many years...definitely not the normal or recommended way, but it works for him. Now, you have to see what works for you. I personally would never keep an evergreen in a basement or bulkhead unless I knew it would FREEZE SOLID and stay that way...otherwise it will be active at some level and will suffer from lack of light, not to mention it might get nibbled on by marauding mice.
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