Digging Piñon Pine

[Desert O'Piñon]

That's extremely helpful. When I head up into the Guadalupes, I'm going to be looking for the appropriate soil first, and the right tree second.

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

Around here, it's very easy to find trees that have been whacked back by the snow plows on the edge of the roads in national forests

What's a snow plow?
Lol

 

[Hartinez]

I appreciate that you started out collecting "practice trees". I'm not sure this was explicitly your goal, but you mentioned that the first 9 you collected weren't anything special. This is something I've been doing, since I have no experience keeping trees alive post collection. Around here, it's very easy to find trees that have been whacked back by the snow plows on the edge of the roads in national forests, so those are good fodder for collecting for practice.

Maybe someday I'll get good enough at collecting to dig the nice ones!

I wouldn’t necessarily say there was nothing special about them, just not what I would say are exhibition winning trees. At least not yet there not. I also though, attempted collected some pretty bad ass BIG piñon many years ago and killed the shit out of them. These trees, may die. I def left the big ones intentionally over the last few years, but at some point you’ve got to do the thing. 100% success is never guaranteed even with tons of practice

 

[Hartinez]

Here are threads on trees, that I have either personally collected, or have had a hand in collecting. I gave two away to a fellow Bonsai friend locally, and another I have yet to start a thread for.

Post in thread 'Piñon Jay seed clumps'

Aug 7, 2024

I still have the same display goal
For this little, clump, but I’m thinking of pairing with this big one seed instead. View attachment 561410

Amazing yamadoris

• clem

Post in thread 'Piñon pine #2'

Jul 19, 2024

Definitely following. This species ranks very high on my list. Very interesting what you've done with it so far.

• Desert O'Piñon

Thread 'End of season update on some spring collections - Piñon Pine'

Oct 17, 2021

I’ve have NEVER had luck in the collection of piñon pine. I’ve collected at least half a dozen over the years and they have all withered and died. I’ve tried spring fall and summer. It had been a few years since I last tried and I decided to give a few smaller specimen a try this spring. On my property there is an abundance. With quite a few spectacular specimen available. Practicing on smaller trees will be best before I start digging trees I will regret killing. This years collections have done GREAT. And although they are small, they both have relatively excellent bark...

• Hartinez
• Replies: 39
• Forum: Collecting & importing

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Thread 'Colorado’s Literati Piñon Pine'

Sep 6, 2023

This slender and elegant piñon pine was collected in spring 2021 by my good friend @Hartinez and myself. We collected it on Danny’s property in New Mexico near the Sandia Mountains. Well, Danny took the lead on collecting it and I tried not to screw anything up too bad

Such a fun road trip!


I put it in a wood box with pumice for 2 years. I fertilized it fairly heavily during that time and it grew very vigorously, pushing new buds all over the branching.

This spring I repotted it into this oversized bonsai container. I’d like to get it into a smaller pot...

• Colorado
• Replies: 20
• Forum: Pines

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[Flowerhouse]

Trying this on my phone: I have a small but rugged piñon that I collected in Colorado. Success! @pandacular I couldn't make the alt 164 work on my laptop.

 

[Hartinez]

For anyone who finds themselves near. I’ve found an area west of Abq that has some spectacular landscapes and amazing stunted piñon and juniper. It’s in the Cibola national forest and it surrounds an inactive, 11k elevation volcano. Mount Taylor. About an hour west of Abq. There are some extraordinary hiking areas. The lava rock shapes covered in lichen are so cool.


I wanted to collect this amazing shohin piñon but it was uncollectible.

 

[Colorado]

If any of these three survive this collection, you can dub me any way you’d like my man, TJ! I think that I would love even more, though, is if you drove down from Colorado and we went and collected you an even better tree. I’m pretty much convinced that that area west of Albuquerque around in Mount Taylor is the Pinyon pine Mecca. The area is so fucking vast, and there were trees everywhere. Not to mention the beautiful pieces of Lichen covered lava rock.

I’m in!!!

 

[jevanlewis]

I’m on the front end of what I would say is a great time to collect trees. In the peak of this summer when temperatures are still in the upper 90s consistently is definitely not a good time. But the temperatures have cooled and we are only getting up to the high 80s at the moment. Especially in the mountains. The key is to find trees, Piñon in particular, that are growing in the dense clay, that we have all over the place. Inevitably, you will have to cut a taproot, but keeping a ball of clay in tact around the base of the tree will ensure that whatever feeder routes are present, stay untouched, and connected to the michroriza that are helping them survive. I’m pretty sure I sent you some pictures of another pinion that I collected several years back where I used this very technique. Trench around the base of the tree, wrap tightly with plastic wrap, then start to remove the soil under the ball and expose the taproot. Grab the soil more to keep it intact, then sever the taproot and remove the tree.

I'm in agreement with everything said here. While early Spring is probably the best time of year to collect most pines, as Hartinez says, late summer or early fall can also be a great time to collect. I collected my only Pinyon pine in early September (2021), but it was at 10,000 feet, and so daytime temperatures were cool (in the 70s) and nighttime temperatures were in the mid 30s. Once I got it home to ~5,000 feet, September temperatures were cool enough to be easy on the tree, but at the same time, there were two months of good growing weather to allow the tree to recover before winter dormancy.

I'll share one mistake I made with my Pinyon. Mine was growing in a rock pocket with very loose "soil" made up primarily of pine needle and leaf duff. Luckily, I was able to grab several feet of the tap root with lots of fine feeder roots. My mistake was cramming these roots into a really small pot with mostly native soil and pumice to fill in the gaps. The first summer (2022), the tree survived but didn't quite thrive, and the following summer it was looking even worse. My assessment was that the soil was overly compacted and didn't drain and breathe well. So, I did an emergency mid-summer (2023) repot into a larger grow box in 50/50 pumice and lava, where I was able to spread out the roots. Starting this past Spring, the tree was looking much better, and the tree is looking much more healthy today.

Pinyons are awesome trees, even though I'm a beginner with them.

 

[Hartinez]

I'm in agreement with everything said here. While early Spring is probably the best time of year to collect most pines, as Hartinez says, late summer or early fall can also be a great time to collect. I collected my only Pinyon pine in early September (2021), but it was at 10,000 feet, and so daytime temperatures were cool (in the 70s) and nighttime temperatures were in the mid 30s. Once I got it home to ~5,000 feet, September temperatures were cool enough to be easy on the tree, but at the same time, there were two months of good growing weather to allow the tree to recover before winter dormancy.

I'll share one mistake I made with my Pinyon. Mine was growing in a rock pocket with very loose "soil" made up primarily of pine needle and leaf duff. Luckily, I was able to grab several feet of the tap root with lots of fine feeder roots. My mistake was cramming these roots into a really small pot with mostly native soil and pumice to fill in the gaps. The first summer (2022), the tree survived but didn't quite thrive, and the following summer it was looking even worse. My assessment was that the soil was overly compacted and didn't drain and breathe well. So, I did an emergency mid-summer (2023) repot into a larger grow box in 50/50 pumice and lava, where I was able to spread out the roots. Starting this past Spring, the tree was looking much better, and the tree is looking much more healthy today.

Pinyons are awesome trees, even though I'm a beginner with them.

I think you’ve made an excellent point here. If when you identify a tree that you want to collect and you go to wiggle the tree and it wiggles very easy, it’s probably not a good candidate. If anything, I have found you want little to no movement at the base. if it’s growing out of a rock and not wiggling, it’s probably because it’s locked into the rock. If it’s growing out of clay or soil, and not wiggling, it’s probably because it’s locked in place in the dirt. That is a collectible tree in my opinion.

 

[jevanlewis]

I think you’ve made an excellent point here. If when you identify a tree that you want to collect and you go to wiggle the tree and it wiggles very easy, it’s probably not a good candidate. If anything, I have found you want little to no movement at the base. if it’s growing out of a rock and not wiggling, it’s probably because it’s locked into the rock. If it’s growing out of clay or soil, and not wiggling, it’s probably because it’s locked in place in the dirt. That is a collectible tree in my opinion.

Great point. My takeaway is that the wiggle test is simply an indicator of whether you're likely to lose a lot of native soil and feeder roots when you try to collect.

My pinyon failed the wiggle test (i.e., it wiggled quite easily), but I was able to determine that despite the wiggling, I would still be able to get significant root mass with attached soil because the entire root system was in a really long surface rock pocket. If I had backpack space for it, I could have had a 6-foot tap root, with fine feeder roots going the whole length! Luckily, there were lots of fine feeder roots in the first three feet or so of the tap root, and so I was able to safely cut off the rest of the tap root.

 

[Hartinez]

Some of the collects I’ve made and the associated rootball and soil type

 

[JesseKane]

Gorgeous trees! I just collected my first Piñon last week but its location made getting a decent root ball difficult. Currently babying it and keeping my fingers crossed. How late into fall do you think you can still collect? I'd love to take another trip out and try out your plastic wrap trick.

 

[Hartinez]

Gorgeous trees! I just collected my first Piñon last week but its location made getting a decent root ball difficult. Currently babying it and keeping my fingers crossed. How late into fall do you think you can still collect? I'd love to take another trip out and try out your plastic wrap trick.

I wouldn’t push it too late. But your wont know till you find out. I can go as late as late October here, but the temps stay warmer longer here in Abq

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

So, as late as late October into November down here. And as early as...?
Late February maybe?

 

[BrianBay9]

I think you’ve made an excellent point here. If when you identify a tree that you want to collect and you go to wiggle the tree and it wiggles very easy, it’s probably not a good candidate. If anything, I have found you want little to no movement at the base. if it’s growing out of a rock and not wiggling, it’s probably because it’s locked into the rock. If it’s growing out of clay or soil, and not wiggling, it’s probably because it’s locked in place in the dirt. That is a collectible tree in my opinion.

This is very site specific. Might be good advice for pinyon pines in New Mexico. Not necessarily good advice for ponderosa or lodgepole pine on granite in Colorado or Wyoming.

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

This is very site specific. Might be good advice for pinyon pines in New Mexico. Not necessarily good advice for ponderosa or lodgepole pine on granite in Colorado or Wyoming.

Undoubtedly. Site and species.

 

[Hartinez]

This is very site specific. Might be good advice for pinyon pines in New Mexico. Not necessarily good advice for ponderosa or lodgepole pine on granite in Colorado or Wyoming.

Absolutely. It’s def why I stated the observation in this thread titled “digging piñon pine” .

 

[Hartinez]

So, as late as late October into November down here. And as early as...?
Late February maybe?

I don’t know. I’ve never collected that far south. Gotta just give it a go. There are quite few primos up here who dig piñon year round to sell as landscape trees. Bigger field soil ball and I have know idea if they end up surviving.

 

[Hartinez]

Another great time on the foot hills of Mt Taylor today. Collected another big piñon and a real small one.

 

[Hartinez]

But I also had a great time harvesting piñon seeds for eating. It’s a big time tradition here and northern NM is seeing a very bountiful crop this year. Roasted, salted and ready to snack!