diatomaceous earth

[coh]

I bought a bag of both the Napa 8822 and the Optisorb. I do like the little bit bigger particle size of the Optisorb. I thought the Optisorb also had fewer fines. And at $10 for a 25 lb bag I couldn't beat that price.

I also ran some tests on the DE using the method Brian talks about in this article he wrote for the The Journal of the American Bonsai Society - https://fingerlakesbonsai.weebly.com/uploads/3/9/6/3/39634557/abs_vol_48_no_4_brian_heltsley.pdf . In the article he recommends an ideal soil mixture has having 25% water retention and 35% air retention. With the testing I did the Napa 8822 was 24% water retention and 33% air retention. The Optisorb was 21% water retention and 37% air retention.

Where did you find optisorb? I'd like to grab a bag.

 

[Gary McCarthy]

Where did you find optisorb? I'd like to grab a bag.

I have a FASTENAL store here in Medina that carries it.

 

[coh]

I have a FASTENAL store here in Medina that carries it.

Ah, thanks! There are a couple of those not too far from here.

 

[Soldano666]

Check oriely auto they carry the optisorb too.

 

[milehigh_7]

Check oriely auto they carry the optisorb too.

Yea they want to charge you through the nose. I get it online and look for places where I can get free shipping. I normally wait then order about 500 pounds at a time. Try to find a coupon and really save $$$.

 

[Vindeezy]

I used about 40% pine fines once and it dried out too fast.

Pretty sure it was half the soil, half because the trees were so happy and growing like mad!

But I had wilting Buckthorn by the time I got home so I went to 100% .

I went looking for the Home Depot pine fines again and couldn't find it anymore.

Anything smaller AND more absorbent than sifted 8822 negates the properties of 8822 and shouldn't be used.
Not that it's bad, but 8822 becomes the "aggragate" then....
But it is useless as such, so stick with just potting soil, or use something like turkey grit.

100% unsifted 8822 IS a death sentence in time.

You might get away with it till you get to the settled part of the bag, but eventually, the dust WILL create a water block and give you dead dry patches.

Always sift with a mask.....

At night with a headlamp so you're neighbors think you'e a terrorist mixing up ......

Sorce

It’s a madhouse or so they say!
Love the Anthrax clip timeless!

 

[justBonsai]

I'm going to try some of this optisorb. I've been looking for a larger sized napa 8822.

 

[milehigh_7]

I'm going to try some of this optisorb. I've been looking for a larger sized napa 8822.

I love it. Just make sure you get the dust and fines out.

 

[justBonsai]

I love it. Just make sure you get the dust and fines out.

Trying to get my soil together for the upcoming spring. I've used NAPA a lot before and it seems to work decent but it was always cut with lava and pumice. I'm trying to go with a drier mix this season, no bark but I need a component with good CEC which is why I'm interested to try this product.

Last season I barely had enough soil and spent too much time sifting. Found a local landscape source where I can get 3/16th lava and pumice. I know a lot of folks here use 1/4 inch plus soil particles but in my hot socal climate I think smaller is better for the rough summer days.

 

[milehigh_7]

Trying to get my soil together for the upcoming spring. I've used NAPA a lot before and it seems to work decent but it was always cut with lava and pumice. I'm trying to go with a drier mix this season, no bark but I need a component with good CEC which is why I'm interested to try this product.

Last season I barely had enough soil and spent too much time sifting. Found a local landscape source where I can get 3/16th lava and pumice. I know a lot of folks here use 1/4 inch plus soil particles but in my hot socal climate I think smaller is better for the rough summer days.

I wish I could get lava and/or pumice inexpensively here I would mix them. Let me get with you next week I might have found an even larger DE size. I've been talking to the guys at the mine and I am waiting for a phone call. Supposedly it is a bit bigger than Optisorb.

 

[milehigh_7]

I need to get my cement mixer put together. Was waiting for some info from @armetisius but he quit coming around I think.

 

[Rambles]

I enjoy shohin, so the optisorb is a great size.

I poke holes in the bottom of the bag, then run the waterhose into the top, fill the bag and let it drain several times till it runs more-or-less clear, dry it under a heat lamp (turning it each day) until more-or-less dry, and sift it to about 3/16ths. This nets me half a bag for my trees and half a bags to reduce my pest load or absorb the perennial oil leak on the van.

 

[justBonsai]

I enjoy shohin, so the optisorb is a great size.

I poke holes in the bottom of the bag, then run the waterhose into the top, fill the bag and let it drain several times till it runs more-or-less clear, dry it under a heat lamp (turning it each day) until more-or-less dry, and sift it to about 3/16ths. This nets me half a bag for my trees and half a bags to reduce my pest load or absorb the perennial oil leak on the van.

I'd use a 3mm sieve (1/8th inch) when I used NAPA 8822 in my mix. Sifting yielded so much waste where the usable amount of napa was less than 50% of the bag for me. Hopefully this product is better.

 

[milehigh_7]

I'd use a 3mm sieve (1/8th inch) when I used NAPA 8822 in my mix. Sifting yielded so much waste where the usable amount of napa was less than 50% of the bag for me. Hopefully this product is better.

It is WAY better than 8822 for bonsai use.

SCREEN SIZE: ** Optisorb stats from EP Minerals
U.S.A. Standard Test Sieve (ASTM E-11)
+4 MESH.......................................... 3.8%
+6 MESH........................................ 48.3%
+10 MESH...................................... 32.5%
+20 MESH...................................... 13.7%
+30 MESH........................................ 0.1%
+60 MESH........................................ 0.4%
+PAN................................................ < 1%
(100.00%)
** = Typical analysis of standard product, individual

 

[Rambles]

I'd use a 3mm sieve (1/8th inch) when I used NAPA 8822 in my mix. Sifting yielded so much waste where the usable amount of napa was less than 50% of the bag for me. Hopefully this product is better.

It's a little bigger, but not by a lot, so you're still going to have a fair amount of byproduct.

 

[Gary McCarthy]

Let me get with you next week I might have found an even larger DE size. I've been talking to the guys at the mine and I am waiting for a phone call. Supposedly it is a bit bigger than Optisorb.

Let me know how you make out with that. Thanks.

 

[Bon Sai]

I use a mix of DE, zeolite to raise the pH, pumice, and volcanic earth.

I wanted to open a thread to ask something about DE, but I'll take advantage and ask it here if you don't mind.

DE has a lot of microporosity that absorbs a lot of water and keeps it wet for days. If I water with hard water, will calcium end up building up inside the pores and making them lose absorption capacity over time?

 

[milehigh_7]

I use a mix of DE, zeolite to raise the pH, pumice, and volcanic earth.

I wanted to open a thread to ask something about DE, but I'll take advantage and ask it here if you don't mind.

DE has a lot of microporosity that absorbs a lot of water and keeps it wet for days. If I water with hard water, will calcium end up building up inside the pores and making them lose absorption capacity over time?

Good question and I don't know the answer.

 

[milehigh_7]

Good question and I don't know the answer.

@markyscott do you know?

 

[M. Frary]

I use a mix of DE, zeolite to raise the pH, pumice, and volcanic earth.

I wanted to open a thread to ask something about DE, but I'll take advantage and ask it here if you don't mind.

DE has a lot of microporosity that absorbs a lot of water and keeps it wet for days. If I water with hard water, will calcium end up building up inside the pores and making them lose absorption capacity over time?

I use the water straight from my tap and it's termed hard water. It doesn't seem to affect it at all.
Our neighbors water is worse. It has so much iron in it a glass will turn orange with water left in it. I don't know if that hurts or not but I would be leery.