Dead...?

[AaronThomas]

Hi all... I have planted a large juniper in a rather large pot about 4 months ago... I would consider this more of a shrubbery rather than a bonsai so I hope its okay that Im posting this here. When I first planted it was green then quickly turned yellow then back to green. About a week ago it started turning yellow again and in some spots the leaves are crispy brown. The soil is a mixture of mainly organics, decomposed granite, sand, and pumice.... its drains quite well. Im pretty careful about not letting the feet stay wet... and water every week or so when the soil is just barely damp. Any ideas would be extremely helpful and appreciated.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

No not dead, just a little die-back from transplanting. The brown parts are all dead, and should be plucked off to open up the tree and let air and light into the inner spaces. Otherwise don't touch it right now and wait for summer to pass. Since you live in Tucson, if you wanted a little insurance, you might consider some shade cloth to cut the sun for this summer only.

For motivation, here are some photos of a procumbens bonsai (I am pretty sure your tree is a procumbens as well and we are just seeing immature foliage).

From Michael Hagedorn's website http://crataegus.com

Here is a large procumbens in a nursery pot. Overgrown, but a lush, thick green...

See the interior of the tree. When the foliage gets dense, it blocks light and air from reaching the inner branches, and they die back.

Open up the foliage, and a bonsai emerges...

 

[Poink88]

You've got bright "lively" green...that is good sign. I think those shrubs are alive.

 

[AaronThomas]

Excellent news! Thank you both so much for the responses. I was getting worried because it was so beautiful and green when I planted it. I will def. pluck off the dead portions and I have some extra shade cloth from the Chinese Elm shade I created. BN beautiful photos...
Let ya know how it goes!

 

[october]

Hello Aaron...Bonsai nut gave you some good advice.

As far as the Juniper that he posted. It is awesome.. However, I think this version might work just as well.

Rob

 

[TheSteve]

I have to wonder about your soil if you only have to water it once every "week or so" in Arizona?? My guess is it's wetter than you think it is and that's where the browning is coming from.

 

[Paradox]

For motivation, here are some photos of a procumbens bonsai......

From Michael Hagedorn's website http://crataegus.com

Here is a large procumbens in a nursery pot. Overgrown, but a lush, thick green...

Open up the foliage, and a bonsai emerges...

WHY can't I find nursery stock like this at any of my local nurseries?!!!
So depressing......

 

[Vance Wood]

I have to wonder about your soil if you only have to water it once every "week or so" in Arizona?? My guess is it's wetter than you think it is and that's where the browning is coming from.

Or you're not watering enough! It is surprising to me that even a dead tree should dry out in your climate in less than a week?

 

[Smoke]

WHY can't I find nursery stock like this at any of my local nurseries?!!!
So depressing......

If they had it would you be willing to pay this for it?

 

[Vance Wood]

WHY can't I find nursery stock like this at any of my local nurseries?!!!
So depressing......

You can but you are probably not looking for the right things to begin with. I tell all of those I work with to look for dramatic trunks first and foremost, the rest of the tree, especially with a Juniper, can be grown out over time. If you look at the beginning and end in this pair of pictures the first photo shows a typical procumbens Juniper you are likely to find in most any nursery, the second shows what makes this Juniper a stand out-----a large and well shaped trunk. Everything else is nothing more than utilizing existing branches, artistic wiring, trimming, and shaping. The difference is an artistic eye and a knowledgable idea of what you can change and what you cannot. A lot of this comes with time and experience, the rest is in recognizing an opportunity to learn and profit from something new, different or challenging.

There is also a concept that is difficult for beginners and intermidiate growers to grasp; most bonsai are made from cutting large material down into a bonsai not growing small material up into a bonsai. To find trunks like this you must start with much larger materials than you are most likely looking at. In short you cannot find what you are looking for by looking in the same places and at the same things. I know I may be making assumptions about what you are doing and what you are seeing and if I have, by making these assumptions, offended you I deeply appologize and I hope this information is somehow helpful to someone.

 

[Paradox]

I'm not offended at all Vance. Thank you for the response.

Thinking about it, most if not all of the places I've been looking, simply because of convenience tend to have smaller, less expensive specimens. For example, I have not seen a juniper in anything larger than a 1 gallon pot. Mugos mostly 1-3 gallon. I've seen some 5 gallon pines and maples. I have a scots that was in a 5 gallon pot, has a very nice trunk but because it was grown for landscaping looks more like an octopus further up (many smaller branches). I've been working on it but I have to admit I'm at a loss as to what to with it at this point other than just use it for learning but that's another topic.

The one "bonsai nursery" near me pretty much has only seedlings believe it or not.


I think I've got to find some of the more high end nurseries that tend to have the larger, more expensive stuff.

@ smoke: What is your estimate for what that juniper went for at the nursery? $100-$150? Even $200?
Yes Id be willing to pay that for a nursery plant like that.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

What is your estimate for what that juniper went for at the nursery? $100-$150? Even $200?
Yes Id be willing to pay that for a nursery plant like that.

The white chalk on the side of the can appears to read 1500. If correct, I'd say it's overpriced. It appears to be a procumbens (again, personal opinion), and lacks a solid base.

This +30-year old shimpaku bonsai stock, with a solid 4.5" diameter trunk had the same price tag. That's not a AA Battery for scale.

 

[Paradox]

I was reading the forums on my cell phone at the time and the pictures dont enlarge so I couldnt see the numbers written on the side. Now that I am viewing on my large computer screen I can see them. If that is the price...Wow was I off in my estimate.....lol. If it is a procumbens...only people that work for people that own houses in the millions of dollars would be buying from that particular nursery.

Yeah $1500 at this time would probably be a bit out of my range....lol
Perhaps in 10 years or so I might be willing to invest in something like that. On the other hand, I could just plant a few 10+ year old trees around the yard and wait for those 10 years instead.

In any case, being where I live, there are some higher end nurseries that cater to the richer folk (or people that work for them in this case)east of me. Someday Ill take a ride and stalk around a few.
Until then Ill have to settle for the more common bargan basement nurseries and hope for something decent, or as I said, buy some little guys now and plant them somewhere. Just got to find an appropriate spot.

Bet you guys think Im pretty stupid huh?

 

[october]

Hello Paradox...Well, All I can say is welcome to bonsai.. Many of us, even those that have been in it for 10-20 years plus still deal with the issue of high prices. I also cannot go to my nursery and spend $2000-$3000 on a tree. What you must consider now is reading and learning as much as you can. Join a club and work with a bonsai professional. Then you will be able to find the bonsai hidden in the material. Just a word though. Bonsai takes years to grasp. It usually takes about 3 years to grasp the basics. Then you proceed from there... Right now, keep an eye out for older, thicker trunked trees at local nurseries and in peoples landscapes or in nature. Then you might be able to get some nice material for free or at least a reasonable price. Also, when a tree has been styled by a professional, the price goes up. For example, that procumbens could go for maybe $700 unstyled. However, after a well known bonsai artists creates a bonsai from it, the price could go up by hundreds of dollars.

Rob

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Bet you guys think Im pretty stupid huh?

Not at all...I didn't see the numbers at first either, but like Rob said, I think Michael gets to add that second "0" after he finished styling it. he brought the best of the tree out beautifully, but it's still a procumbens with a bad base.

Also, part of the learning curve for me, was learning that buying 10 trees for $15.00 at Home Depot ultimately nets less than a single tree for $150 that was grown to be bonsai; in what in can provide in terms of experience, quality, and success. That, and always have something in the ground on a 10-year plan!

 

[Vance Wood]

I was reading the forums on my cell phone at the time and the pictures dont enlarge so I couldnt see the numbers written on the side. Now that I am viewing on my large computer screen I can see them. If that is the price...Wow was I off in my estimate.....lol. If it is a procumbens...only people that work for people that own houses in the millions of dollars would be buying from that particular nursery.

Yeah $1500 at this time would probably be a bit out of my range....lol
Perhaps in 10 years or so I might be willing to invest in something like that. On the other hand, I could just plant a few 10+ year old trees around the yard and wait for those 10 years instead.

In any case, being where I live, there are some higher end nurseries that cater to the richer folk (or people that work for them in this case)east of me. Someday Ill take a ride and stalk around a few.
Until then Ill have to settle for the more common bargan basement nurseries and hope for something decent, or as I said, buy some little guys now and plant them somewhere. Just got to find an appropriate spot.

Bet you guys think Im pretty stupid huh?

NO! You are not stupid, you just happen to fall into a growing category of interested bonsai growers with families, bills and responsibilities that stretches an income to nearly having a pay check spent before its received. There are basically two schools of thought about materials for bonsai. There are those who will pay thousands of dollars for a tree that has been worked on by someone who knows something about bonsai and Yamadori from the mountians. I do not fault these people for their approach and their willingness to spend money---God bless them and may they continue in what they do. However; there are those who do not have the resourses to do this and most of us have to resort to "grow your own" and the nursery trade. Of course there is a third school that buy only finished bonsai; these are the collectors. Good for them, they keep those in the bonsai community that grow bonsai for sale, in business.

 

[Poink88]

NO! You are not stupid, you just happen to fall into a growing category of interested bonsai growers with families, bills and responsibilities that stretches an income to nearly having a pay check spent before its received. There are basically two schools of thought about materials for bonsai. There are those who will pay thousands of dollars for a tree that has been worked on by someone who knows something about bonsai and Yamadori from the mountians. I do not fault these people for their approach and their willingness to spend money---God bless them and may they continue in what they do. However; there are those who do not have the resourses to do this and most of us have to resort to "grow your own" and the nursery trade. Of course there is a third school that buy only finished bonsai; these are the collectors. Good for them, they keep those in the bonsai community that grow bonsai for sale, in business.

I belong to this group and I mostly collect/save free trees. It is a win-win situation.

 

[AaronThomas]

WOW! lol How a thread can change... sorry for late reply... out of town and just got home. The soil drains very well... I check with a bamboo stick to check. Yes usually the bottom 8 to 12 inches are a bit moister than the top of the soil. Temps average out at 105 so been needing to water every week or so. I cleaned out all the dead leaves and what not so I guess well see what happens.

 

[milehigh_7]

WOW! lol How a thread can change... sorry for late reply... out of town and just got home. The soil drains very well... I check with a bamboo stick to check. Yes usually the bottom 8 to 12 inches are a bit moister than the top of the soil. Temps average out at 105 so been needing to water every week or so. I cleaned out all the dead leaves and what not so I guess well see what happens.

One more thing to suggest and that is to get some white paper and hold it under the needles and tap the branch. Then look at the paper for little red dots with legs... These would be spider mites and Junipers tend to look very tasty to them.

If you find any get a spray nozzle and spray a nice hard jet of water up from under the branches. Do this fairly often until the tree looks better.

 

[Vance Wood]

WOW! lol How a thread can change... sorry for late reply... out of town and just got home. The soil drains very well... I check with a bamboo stick to check. Yes usually the bottom 8 to 12 inches are a bit moister than the top of the soil. Temps average out at 105 so been needing to water every week or so. I cleaned out all the dead leaves and what not so I guess well see what happens.

Needing to water every week or so !!!!!!!!! What are you growing, potato chips? With temperatures that high you should be watering two or three times a day with a well draining soil. If this schedule works for you someone in high places is watching out for your trees. Not meaning to be offensive but in many decades growing bonsai I have never heard of anyone getting away with this. If you can pull it off I would love to know how.