Dawn redwood nursery advice

[Bonsailee]

Hi all,

I’m new to bonsai and have just purchased a dawn redwood from the local nursery. I also collected a nice bit of deadwood of which I want to use to make a tanuki redwood bonsai with.
My question is, should I leave it as it is now and do a trunk chop when it drops all its leafs as I want to reduce the hight and concentrate on growing the trunk into the deadwood. Or chop the top now?
It also want to repot into a larger growing pot to help this growth before it goes into a bonsai training pot. Should I wait to repot as above?
Thanks

 

[Deleted member 47471]

I like the redwood tree as it is in its natural state. The trunks are beautiful on them and I would want to show it off.

The most advice I’ve seen here so far is to plant the tree in the ground to thicken the trunk.

While the driftwood itself looks cool, it is very wide and has an abrupt and obvious flat base ending with no tree base appearance, no Nebari, and with much open/dead space between itself and the soil surface.

Though the driftwood curves a lot, it does not create a transition from itself to the DRW trunk due to the opposing textures, the taper issue, the bark/fibers, and it looks overall very much different and attached to the tree as a foreign object.

If you can thicken the DRW trunk over the next several years, add Shari, and create Jin/deadwood, that would give a good natural appearance of age and succumbing to elements.

 

[Bonsailee]

Thanks for advice,

 

[rockm]

If you want to do this, you're going about it in a way that is greatly extending the development time.

For instance, topping the tree before it adheres to the the deadwood will slow that process to a crawl. The more growth above the place you want to thicken and expand, the better. The more space the tree has for roots will also fuel that process. Another container won't really provide all that much more space and will still slow development. In the ground is the fastest and most efficient way to get the trunk anywhere near the size it needs to be to match up with the deadwood.

Additionally, the top branching on this tree is apparently being held horizontally by tie wires. That also slows down the more important process of thickening the trunk and adhering it to the wood, as unrestricted growth is what will develop the trunk..

The point about mismatched bark is a subtle, but accurate one, as well--unless you remove all the bark from the dead wood. Also, the bottom of the deadwood should be mostly in contact with the ground. As things are now, the trunk of the living tree is going to be visible when viewing the trunk from the deadwood side.

A good tanuki is not an easy thing to create.

 

[Bonsailee]

If you want to do this, you're going about it in a way that is greatly extending the development time.

For instance, topping the tree before it adheres to the the deadwood will slow that process to a crawl. The more growth above the place you want to thicken and expand, the better. The more space the tree has for roots will also fuel that process. Another container won't really provide all that much more space and will still slow development. In the ground is the fastest and most efficient way to get the trunk anywhere near the size it needs to be to match up with the deadwood.

Additionally, the top branching on this tree is apparently being held horizontally by tie wires. That also slows down the more important process of thickening the trunk and adhering it to the wood, as unrestricted growth is what will develop the trunk..

The point about mismatched bark is a subtle, but accurate one, as well--unless you remove all the bark from the dead wood. Also, the bottom of the deadwood should be mostly in contact with the ground. As things are now, the trunk of the living tree is going to be visible when viewing the trunk from the deadwood side.

A good tanuki is not an easy thing to create.

Thank you but that’s why I was asking, when I should chop, however I should have said when should I chop if at all! My bad I’m still learning.

I’ve taken your advice and removed the ties to let it grow out. I’m going to repot in a bigger pot in the garden (concrete yard) and just leave it alone to grow out for a few years.

Any advice on what soil mix I should be using?

 

[Bonsailee]

If you want to do this, you're going about it in a way that is greatly extending the development time.

For instance, topping the tree before it adheres to the the deadwood will slow that process to a crawl. The more growth above the place you want to thicken and expand, the better. The more space the tree has for roots will also fuel that process. Another container won't really provide all that much more space and will still slow development. In the ground is the fastest and most efficient way to get the trunk anywhere near the size it needs to be to match up with the deadwood.

Additionally, the top branching on this tree is apparently being held horizontally by tie wires. That also slows down the more important process of thickening the trunk and adhering it to the wood, as unrestricted growth is what will develop the trunk..

The point about mismatched bark is a subtle, but accurate one, as well--unless you remove all the bark from the dead wood. Also, the bottom of the deadwood should be mostly in contact with the ground. As things are now, the trunk of the living tree is going to be visible when viewing the trunk from the deadwood side.

A good tanuki is not an easy thing to create.

I like the redwood tree as it is in its natural state. The trunks are beautiful on them and I would want to show it off.

The most advice I’ve seen here so far is to plant the tree in the ground to thicken the trunk.

While the driftwood itself looks cool, it is very wide and has an abrupt and obvious flat base ending with no tree base appearance, no Nebari, and with much open/dead space between itself and the soil surface.

Though the driftwood curves a lot, it does not create a transition from itself to the DRW trunk due to the opposing textures, the taper issue, the bark/fibers, and it looks overall very much different and attached to the tree as a foreign object.

If you can thicken the DRW trunk over the next several years, add Shari, and create Jin/deadwood, that would give a good natural appearance of age and succumbing to elements.

All points taken.

I was going to fill the void at the bottom of the trunk with maybe a rock or even possibly try ground layer to create a new route system and nebari

I know it’s not the best looking tanuki but I like it and the point of this tree is to represent the struggles my wife and I have been through. The new tree (our growth) growing from the deadwood (hard times we have been through) representing solidarity and persistence etc.

 

[rockm]

All points taken.

I was going to fill the void at the bottom of the trunk with maybe a rock or even possibly try ground layer to create a new route system and nebari

I know it’s not the best looking tanuki but I like it and the point of this tree is to represent the struggles my wife and I have been through. The new tree (our growth) growing from the deadwood (hard times we have been through) representing solidarity and persistence etc.

Well, yeah, i get it having been married over 35 years now, BUT as a metaphor, this kind of misses the mark, for me at least. Why not just use a juniper and create ACTUAL deadwood that might look more believable down the road?
Nothing grows from deadwood. It's dead. Trees compartmentalize damage and find ways to accommodate and grow around that trauma. A tanuki actually uses ANOTHER tree's trauma to give the illusion of damage. See where I'm going here?

As for soil, any decent bonsai mix should be fine. You miss what I was saying, or at least I didn't explain very well. The tree and dead wood should be planted together as they will be in the final composition, including anchoring, etc. The two should be left alone, allowing the live portion to grow onto the dead section--allowing the top especially, to grow unhindered until the lower portion has fused and grown over the dead wood.

 

[Empty Mountain]

It's not the best season to do a repot right now I would wait until spring.

 

[Bonsailee]

Well, yeah, i get it having been married over 35 years now, BUT as a metaphor, this kind of misses the mark, for me at least. Why not just use a juniper and create ACTUAL deadwood that might look more believable down the road?
Nothing grows from deadwood. It's dead. Trees compartmentalize damage and find ways to accommodate and grow around that trauma. A tanuki actually uses ANOTHER tree's trauma to give the illusion of damage. See where I'm going here?

As for soil, any decent bonsai mix should be fine. You miss what I was saying, or at least I didn't explain very well. The tree and dead wood should be planted together as they will be in the final composition, including anchoring, etc. The two should be left alone, allowing the live portion to grow onto the dead section--allowing the top especially, to grow unhindered until the lower portion has fused and grown over the dead wood.

I do understand your point of view regarding the tree selected for this project and you have a point. It’s just we both picked this tree, didn’t really have the tanuki in mind then came across the piece of deadwood and took a liking to it and boom here we are.

They will be planted together and anchored, I’ve just been getting everything into place before I repot this weekend, I will then take your advice and leave it alone and grow out in order for the pieces to merge etc.

Thank you

 

[Bonsailee]

It's not the best season to do a repot right now I would wait until spring.

Ah ok, I thought it would be ok as it has green on it and seems to be growing well, thought I would be able to repot and let it recover whilst it’s still growing before the autumn. But I’m just a beginner and first ever repot