Dawn redwood forest

[andrewiles]

Hi, complete bonsai newbie here. I started a dawn redwood forest from local nursery cuttings last winter and it has survived to live another year. Started with redwoods because I read they grow fast and were pretty resilient to amateurs. Seems to be true. I was hoping folks could provide some feedback on placement or pruning improvements. I think I'll repot it again this spring to get more experience with that process.

The pot is 2' wide and the tallest tree is 2.5' tall. I've been going for that scraggly subalpine forest look we have here in the Pacific Northwest.

 

[vp999]

I like the placement of the trees, much better than my first forrest attempt. good job.

 

[Adair M]

I have a couple of comments, but before I give you my critique, I would like to tell you that this is an excellent first attempt by a bonsai newbie! Well done!

Ok, here goes...

It kinda appears that the rocks are more the focus of the arrangement than the trees. The rocks get placed up front and center whereas the trees provide the backdrop. And then, the rocks are polished River rocks. The redwoods grow in more higher elevations where the rocks would be more rugged, not smooth.

The trees: pick one to be the fattest and tallest. Cut the others back, each having a slightly different height. Try to have the tallest be the thickest, the second tallest be the second thickest, and so on to where the shortest is also the slimmest.

Dawn redwood buds profusely, so don’t be afraid to cut back. Remove any excess buds that form in the crotches where the branches come off the trunk.

Enjoy your forest!

 

[sorce]

Looks better than the shit they sell at "bonsai nurseries".

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

If you click on your Icon in the upper right corner and add your location, people can give advice customized to your climate. I like your layout with one suggestion: one of the groups should be slightly forward of the other so that a pathway or creek running thru and between them can start at the front of the pot in front of one group and twist around thru and around in back and disappear behind the other group (into infinity, bigger in front, smaller in the distance). A forest will look pretty majestic (when mature) with a height about the same as its width, and with the lower trunks bare and bottom branches starting about 10 to 15% up from the soil. The whole forest floor will be visible and a you can create an elaborate scene with escarpments, two levels of mossy hills and valleys, etc.


Post #6 speaks to creating taper. Your forest will want to grow tall and have more foliage at the tops. You need to keep the tip top barbered close and often, and favor growth of lower branches. This serves two ends: taper and a twiggy top. It will takes substantial time to create a twiggy top, so chop to the finished format now and plan on not chopping in the future. We want branches to grow in the ascending stair-step arrangement, but that doesn't happen in a forest. The trees on the outsides will have a nice arrangement of branches reaching out into open space, but few if any running inward. The branches that will grow on the insides will be few and far between so you have to cherish and cultivate them. The older the forest, the harder it is to start a branch low or inside, so choose an arrangement soon and give each their own space. The difference between a bonsai and a bush is space between branches for the birdies to fly thru. That's what your job is: making space. Enjoy!

 

[discusmike]

Get rid of the rocks

 

[Ohmy222]

As stated, the rocks aren't necessary. I will say you arrangement is very nice in terms of placement. Many practiced hands have put trees in worse arrangements. Most beginners have even spacing and these vary. I have never worked with the species but I have seen some nice forests with dawn redwoods. Best of luck!

 

[Forsoothe!]

OP will learn better selection of rocks over time. They should enhance the scene, making it more life like and natural as opposed to a Hollywood set.

 

[Kanorin]

A lot better than my first forest attempt! Good start!

 

[Adair M]

If you click on your Icon in the upper right corner and add your location, people can give advice customized to your climate. I like your layout with one suggestion: one of the groups should be slightly forward of the other so that a pathway or creek running thru and between them can start at the front of the pot in front of one group and twist around thru and around in back and disappear behind the other group (into infinity, bigger in front, smaller in the distance). A forest will look pretty majestic (when mature) with a height about the same as its width, and with the lower trunks bare and bottom branches starting about 10 to 15% up from the soil. The whole forest floor will be visible and a you can create an elaborate scene with escarpments, two levels of mossy hills and valleys, etc.
View attachment 344874

Post #6 speaks to creating taper. Your forest will want to grow tall and have more foliage at the tops. You need to keep the tip top barbered close and often, and favor growth of lower branches. This serves two ends: taper and a twiggy top. It will takes substantial time to create a twiggy top, so chop to the finished format now and plan on not chopping in the future. We want branches to grow in the ascending stair-step arrangement, but that doesn't happen in a forest. The trees on the outsides will have a nice arrangement of branches reaching out into open space, but few if any running inward. The branches that will grow on the insides will be few and far between so you have to cherish and cultivate them. The older the forest, the harder it is to start a branch low or inside, so choose an arrangement soon and give each their own space. The difference between a bonsai and a bush is space between branches for the birdies to fly thru. That's what your job is: making space. Enjoy!

For a forest of this species, taper isn’t really very important. See this picture:



There’s very little taper.

What’s important is to have varying heights, and have the tallest tree be the thickest, the second tallest be the next thickest, etc. There shouldn’t be a short, fat tree, or a tall tree that’s the thinnest.

Also note how short the branches are relative to the height of the tree. Keeping the branches short will make the trunks appear taller.

 

[andrewiles]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

Yeah, I'll ditch the rocks. In the upper Cascades it's often rugged boulder fields and the occasional grove of stunted larches. Angular, smaller boulders. While these aren't larches I think I can achieve a similar effect -- larches seem to be much more expensive and hard to come by :-(

I'll start to focus on creating a dominant tree in each of the two groves. Question: to selectively increase trunk thickness is it better to allow the target tree to grow taller for a few years in the planting, or to pull it out for a bit and grow separately?

When I practice replanting this spring I'll move one of the clumps forward and replace the gravel with moss..

I'll update my location. In Seattle. Hopefully some other locals on the forum.

Hard to wait a year for each step. I wish speed-bonsai was a thing.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Everything you do contributes to, or takes away from taper. Take your choice.

 

[johng]

For a forest of this species, taper isn’t really very important. See this picture:

View attachment 344884

There’s very little taper.

What’s important is to have varying heights, and have the tallest tree be the thickest, the second tallest be the next thickest, etc. There shouldn’t be a short, fat tree, or a tall tree that’s the thinnest.

Also note how short the branches are relative to the height of the tree. Keeping the branches short will make the trunks appear taller.

Not the same species... Dawn Redwood...from China...Looks a lot more like bald cypress than coastal redwoods... You should google some images! Taper always matters in my estimation...even if it is not drastic taper.

 

[Colorado]

I wish speed-bonsai was a thing.

Nah. That would ruin it.

Nice job on your first forest!

 

[Adair M]

Not the same species... Dawn Redwood...from China...Looks a lot more like bald cypress than coastal redwoods... You should google some images! Taper always matters in my estimation...even if it is not drastic taper.

I’m aware of that. Basal flair is “taper”, just down low. Most bald cypress have great basal flair, but little taper in their tall trunks. Oh, sure, there’s some taper, but not dramatic taper.

The trees in my photo are Giant Sequoia.

To the OP:

Here is my Dawn Redwood forest:



To get your main trunk thicker, let a sacrifice branch grow out of the apex.

Here is a forest of Japanese Maples where I am doing exactly that:



This is a young forest, and needs cutting back. I did prevent the other trees from making tall sacrifice branches. I’ll cut the sacrifice branch off, and regrow another one next year. Why not keep it for several years? Because it will create too big of a scar. Yes, trunk thickening would be faster if I left it on, but regrowing a second sacrifice will heal the first scar, and it will look better in the long run.

Here is another Japanese Maple forest where I’ve done the same thing:

Before:

After:

 

[Adair M]

@johng,

I googled “dawn redwood forest”, and looked at many of the images. From what I can tell, in a forest environment they appear to grow like the Giant Sequoia in my photo above. Their botanical name is “metasequoia”, after all! They do have good basal flair but then grow tall, slender trunks, with a very slight taper.

When grown on it’s own, out in a field by itself, the trunk will be more heavy, and show more taper.

 

[Lutonian]

Found this site showing what @Adair M has already stated but if you click through the photos there are a few photos of them growing in water and nice autumn colours.

Captured from above: Dawn redwoods in Nanjing[1]- Chinadaily.com.cn

Regions along the Yangtze River are embracing the most beautiful season of the year with colorful trees adding beauty to city landscapes.

www.chinadaily.com.cn

 

[Adair M]

I’m aware of that. Basal flair is “taper”, just down low. Most bald cypress have great basal flair, but little taper in their tall trunks. Oh, sure, there’s some taper, but not dramatic taper.

The trees in my photo are Giant Sequoia.

To the OP:

Here is my Dawn Redwood forest:

View attachment 344924

To get your main trunk thicker, let a sacrifice branch grow out of the apex.

Here is a forest of Japanese Maples where I am doing exactly that:

View attachment 344925

This is a young forest, and needs cutting back. I did prevent the other trees from making tall sacrifice branches. I’ll cut the sacrifice branch off, and regrow another one next year. Why not keep it for several years? Because it will create too big of a scar. Yes, trunk thickening would be faster if I left it on, but regrowing a second sacrifice will heal the first scar, and it will look better in the long run.

Here is another Japanese Maple forest where I’ve done the same thing:

Before:View attachment 344927

After:
View attachment 344926

Here is an update to the first Japanese Maple Forest:



It’s still young...

 

[MrWunderful]

Found this site showing what @Adair M has already stated but if you click through the photos there are a few photos of them growing in water and nice autumn colours.

Captured from above: Dawn redwoods in Nanjing[1]- Chinadaily.com.cn

Regions along the Yangtze River are embracing the most beautiful season of the year with colorful trees adding beauty to city landscapes.

www.chinadaily.com.cn

Great pics. Look like they live in the same exact conditions as Bald Cypress.

 

[andrewiles]

Yeah, Wikipedia says they have been discovered to thrive in standing water. I wonder if anyone has created a water landscape with these trees (or bald cypress), mimicking the natural environment. I searched a bit and don't see anything. Kind of appealing here in the soaking pacific northwest, since I could place on a drainless marble tray.