Crape Myrtle

[R_F]

Hey Ryan,
I love the pot!!! Furthermore, I will like it even better when that myrtle gets put in it. Great shohin!

Random question that is NOT meant to be critical: Will the leaves reduce much? Because they look just a tad to large right now.

David,

Thanks for the compliments. It's ok to be critical, that's what I'm here for! You are quite right that the leaves are too big. I have another variety of crape and the leaves have naturally reduced to smaller than a dime. And by naturally I mean with out defoliating. So I'm hoping that this variety of crap can and will do the same over time spent in a small pot.

 

[R_F]

My concern would be the pot is not deep enough.
I have found the deeper pots work better for the crape myrtles (less die back).
Color is a nice blend.
Irene

Hi Irene,

Thanks for the comment. That's my concern as well. When I do finally make the switch I will probably place it in a larger pot filled with course sand. I'm hoping that some of the roots will grow into the sand while its not on display so It won't be stressed out.

Then again....this may just be the pot it goes into to be shown in the spring and then slip potted back into a larger pot for the rest of the season. I've never done this before so don't know if it is even worth doing.....

 

[R_F]

If you can fit it in that pot, than go for it. I think it is a good choice, but I have never seen the root structure of that tree. When will you repot it, next spring?

I'm thinking next spring. This is its first year in good bonsai soil so I may or may not have enough feeder roots where I need them to make the switch safely. We'll see. I'll definitely update when I do it though

 

[R_F]

Nice tree. It has some character. What color are the blossoms?

Thanks! It has purple flowers with bright yellow stamens. On this variety I have been able to get it to bloom within the design by pinching the first set of blooms back. This actually makes a new set of blooms grow further back on the branch. But, since I defoliated it for the first time this year it hasn't even tried to set flowers not yet anyway.

 

[irene_b]

Ryan, with all my crape myrtle's I have never worried about feeder roots...In Bonsai soil you will find they will explode and I have even had them break a too small pot (was placed on sand) and lift up above the rim, hence my concern on the depth/size.
Irene

 

[mapleman77]

I didn't realize that the roots could be so invasive! W-O-W!!

Anyway Ryan I try not to be anything near critical and say that I'm NOT being critical because tempers have a habit of flying around here sometime....

But you have a great tree! I muchly look forward to seeing this "crap can" bloom!!!!

 

[R_F]

But you have a great tree! I muchly look forward to seeing this "crap can" bloom!!!!

At first I had no idea what you were talking about...and then I read my post again I laughed so hard. Thanks for catching that. I needed a good laugh.

 

[R_F]

Ryan, with all my crape myrtle's I have never worried about feeder roots...In Bonsai soil you will find they will explode and I have even had them break a too small pot (was placed on sand) and lift up above the rim, hence my concern on the depth/size.
Irene

Wow. I've never had that happen before. I've used the sand technique before...but I must have forgot to add the steroids you gave yours

 

[Attila Soos]

Very nice material.

One thing that bothers me: on the first picture, you show the branches wired downward, just like one would wire a conifer.

But, since this is a crape myrtle, the branches should be wired upward, just like a zelkova or beech, or stewartia. This is how these trees grow. Wiring the branches downward will never work with this species: it will fight you every day of the year, and at the end, you will lose.
(btw, it will not only be easier on you, but also look better).

Just a suggestion

 

[R_F]

Very nice material.

One thing that bothers me: on the first picture, you show the branches wired downward, just like one would wire a conifer.

But, since this is a crape myrtle, the branches should be wired upward, just like a zelkova or beech, or stewartia. This is how these trees grow. Wiring the branches downward will never work with this species: it will fight you every day of the year, and at the end, you will lose.
(btw, it will not only be easier on you, but also look better).

Just a suggestion

Thanks for the compliment and your input!

I understand where you are coming from. But, I like the tree this way. I started a thread that I was hoping to explore the "naturalists" viewpoint here: http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2144

Basically I'm heavily influenced by Japanese style bonsai. I know that they style many of their deciduous trees the same as they do conifers...but I like it. I also know it is a trend in the west to style trees according to their species...this usually leads to trees that I don't care for.

 

[mapleman77]

Hey Ryan,
I also like your crap ca-----I mean Crape Myrtle the way it is. I think that the way that you shaped it suits the tree itself. I see both sides of the story though. Personally, I would not want the tree to end up looking like the "school of green donut" style but I think that you will not have much of a problem with that either.

I'm glad that I could give you a laugh. Most people seem to think that I'm not that funny but every once in a while..........

 

[Attila Soos]

You may be surprised, but the Japanese design their deciduous trees as they grow in nature - upward sweeping branches - for the most part (of course, there are always examples for the contrary).
So, it is a great misunderstanding that in Japan, deciduous trees are styled mainly in the "pine tree style". It's just not true.

Here are example of top japanese trees. They are from the Shohin Bonsai Association Japan website. I hope I am not breaking any copywrite protocol here, by showing them. I don't think one can access these pictures aymore, but I may be wrong.

The common denominator of the trees presented is the generally upward direction of branches. Also, the pads are either very loose, or non-existent. This makes for a pleasing, and sustainable design. Remember, that a design is only good if it is sustainable at a reasonable amount of effort.

Of course it is a personal taste, you should design your trees as you like them. But it is a mistake to attribute it to the Japanese taste.
By the way, Kyuzo Murata's Four Season of Bonsai has some great deciduous trees, I recommend that book. Mr. Murata was of the greatest teachers of Japanese bonsai, he was the curator of the Imperial Bonsai Collection. He is as Japanese as you can get.

Regards,
Attila

 

[Attila Soos]

Here is a Crape myrtle by Bruce Hisayasu - for inspiration.
(Credit: NABF Newsletter 1, Nanpu-kai 2002 show)

It's probably the best crape myrtle bonsai in the world, west of China.
He is my neighbour, I love to visit his garden a couple of time a year. He has some great Koi as well, btw.

 

[R_F]

Attila,

Thanks for putting so much thought into your posts. I also realize that the Japanese do not style all of their trees like conifers...but my point was that this way of styling is not usually attributed to having originated with the western style of bonsai and I don't believe that one should be boxed in to styling their trees according to the species.
Incase you were wondering, I do like the Japanese trees you posted and I have a couple of them saved in my "inspiration" folder on my computer.
Just remember that my tree has been styled for the very first time. I lowered the branches dramatically because I know the growth habit of crape myrtles. I knew that the new growth to come would grow sharply upwards and balance it out.

It's soo cool that that's your neighbor's tree! Lucky! I found that image on the web some years ago. It is what inspired me to try crape myrtles. Tell him I said "thanks".

 

[Attila Soos]

One last thought before I stop harrassing you:

The biggest problem you will have with the design you chose, is the flowering habit of this species. Your design requires tight, dense foliage pads. If that's how you imagine your future tree, you won't be able to show it in bloom - which is a pity, since the flowers are the main attraction, they look spectacular, when in full bloom.
Flowers grow at the end of the current year's growth. This means that you cannot prune the pads when you want flowers. So, you end up with some nice, horizontal or downsweeping pads, with long, gangly flowers sticking out in all directions. This will completely ruin your design.

This is the reason why broom style is recommended for Lagerstroemia (Crape myrtle). Pads don't match well with their flowering habits.

Of course, you can always ignore all the practical reasons and wisdom behind designing bonsai in accordance with their natural tendencies - the most important thing is to have fun. As long as you like the tree, that's all that matters.

PS.: I wrote my post in the same time as you, so I was unaware of what you wrote. But I hope you dont mind.

 

[Attila Soos]

I lowered the branches dramatically because I know the growth habit of crape myrtles. I knew that the new growth to come would grow sharply upwards and balance it out.

I see. But dont forget the flowers. The trouble with your expectation is that the new growth will have very long stalks, completely overshadowing the pads. One new shoot, with the flower, may be as big as the whole pad.

You are right that one should not be boxed into designing according to the strict shape of the species. But certain species have requirements that one cannot overcome. One must be able to make the tree cooperate. Any particular species responds well to certain bonsai techniques, and will not respond to others. One must keep that in mind. That is why most of the experienced bonsaist specialize in a few species: they learn how to work with them by adapting their techiques according to the needs of the tree.

 

[Klytus]

It is truly difficult to find pots that do not look suitable for crape,looking through my growing library of books i find a few really nice ones but online they are all close but no cigar or else kitch parody.

Also for bringing on your rough material you may want a deeper and wider than usual pot that is attractive and sympathetic to your work in progress,no chance there.

Mica perhaps but the ovals look like pudding basins and the small rounded drums are unavailable here,ho hum.

My pot stash is growing though,sometimes the Garden centers have 'Malay' bowls issued in various colours and ornamentation over the past few years.

I spend most of the time in the pot section of these centers evaluating their hoard for suitable growing pots.

Erin do some really nice accent pots,if only they made them bigger!

 

[shohin kid]

Erin do some really nice accent pots,if only they made them bigger!

Erin does make larger pots

 

[R_F]

Attila,

In regards to blooming. Read below what I wrote earlier in the thread.

On this variety I have been able to get it to bloom within the design by pinching the first set of blooms back. This actually makes a new set of blooms grow further back on the branch. But, since I defoliated it for the first time this year it hasn't even tried to set flowers not yet anyway.

This variety is not a dwarf but it is not a "full" size crape either. And I don't know the variety of the crape because it was unmarked at purchase. The technique described above is something I haven't been able to do with my other varieties of crape myrtle. This is the first year of defoliating this tree so I don't know If I will get any flowers or not. So we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Attila Soos]

Thanks for the thread, and keep us posted. We can always learn from each-other.