Cpl questions on this mame easter white pine...

[Japonicus]

@Adair M This one certainly has shorter needles that are borne from back budding.
I cannot give you the history of it as 0soyoung will on his, but I've always candle pinched
this in the past as the candles had extended full length and opened for the 1st 1/4 length, reducing to 25% length (removing 75%).
While that rendered this years needles as shorter, somehow I always end up with the typical 3 or more inch
long needles. Needles at back buds currently are really short, but will have to get that shot another time.
Much of the apex and many other locales exhibit 1-3/4 to 2" long needles presently.

 

[Carol 83]

I'll see if I can check them out before they close. I heard about them last year but haven't been out there yet

Check on their website for when they have open shop, otherwise you need to make an appointment.

 

[Adair M]

@Adair M This one certainly has shorter needles that are borne from back budding.
I cannot give you the history of it as 0soyoung will on his, but I've always candle pinched
this in the past as the candles had extended full length and opened for the 1st 1/4 length, reducing to 25% length (removing 75%).
While that rendered this years needles as shorter, somehow I always end up with the typical 3 or more inch
long needles. Needles at back buds currently are really short, but will have to get that shot another time.
Much of the apex and many other locales exhibit 1-3/4 to 2" long needles presently.
View attachment 242447

Well, if your tree makes you happy, then then, go for it.

That kind of image just doesn’t do it for me.

There are so many varieties of pine that DO make short internodes and the needles DO reduce to be in better scale. I’ve seen dozens and dozens of EWP attempts at bonsai. The two best I’ve seen are at the North Carolina Arboretum. And even those are just “pretty good, considering...” quality.

If I’m going to spend a lot of time messing with something, I would rather work with a species that will reward me for my efforts rather than forever frustrating me.

But that’s just me.

 

[0soyoung]

Uh... do you have some evidence to back this up???

Yes.

I haven’t seen any EWP respond like you are describing.

Umm, it shouldn't be too difficult for you to find some kind of inexpensive EWP that you can decandle to see for yourself. Alternatively, evidence from an independent third party ought to be persuasive.

Thanks osoyoung. That’s basically what my plan of action is, and see how it responds.

We look forward to your post toward the end of this growing season, @Daniel son STL.

EWP is extremely challenging for bonsai and may not be worth the effort, but it is quite interesting in that it responds in like fashion to every pine technique AFAIK. Decandle like JBP/JRP, candle prune like Scots, cut back hardened foliage like mugo. It also readily pops fascicular buds as a consequence. There is just a mountain of work to go from fascinating fiddling to (possibly) quality bonsai.

 

[0soyoung]

If I’m going to spend a lot of time messing with something, I would rather work with a species that will reward me for my efforts rather than forever frustrating me.

It depends!

On your aims/goals.

 

[Adair M]

Yes.

Umm, it shouldn't be too difficult for you to find some kind of inexpensive EWP that you can decandle to see for yourself. Alternatively, evidence from an independent third party ought to be persuasive.

We look forward to your post toward the end of this growing season, @Daniel son STL.

EWP is extremely challenging for bonsai and may not be worth the effort, but it is quite interesting in that it responds in like fashion to every pine technique AFAIK. Decandle like JBP/JRP, candle prune like Scots, cut back hardened foliage like mugo. It also readily pops fascicular buds as a consequence. There is just a mountain of work to go from fascinating fiddling to (possibly) quality bonsai.

0so, they grow wild around here. I have several bazillion of them on land I own. I have messed with them. Decandled, cut back, pulled needles, chopped... everything I can think of. Nothing improves them. They still make internodes that are too long, have long floppy needles, have long spaces between needle bundles. They always look unkempt, loose, and leggy.

Now, there may be a few witches brooms that would be suitable. Or maybe someone has found a sport that produces shorter needles. (Like Kokonoe And Zuisho are to JWP). That would be cool. I just haven’t seen one yet.

The objections I have with EWP also can be applied to seedling JWP. Many of the seedling JWP make poor bonsai due to poor needle quality. That’s why most JWP we see as bonsai are grafted. It’s not because “JWP have poor (weak) roots”. That’s a myth. The reason they’re grafted is to get trees with attractive, tight, and orderly needle clusters and therefore pads.

Compare Japonicus s image of his EWP to this JWP:


The growth habit of this JWP naturally suits our needs for making bonsai.

 

[Japonicus]

Well, if your tree makes you happy, then then, go for it.

That kind of image just doesn’t do it for me.

Haha nor me. No bragging rights there that’s for sure.

But

It will reduce needle size. I am curious though if those needles get longer the 2nd and 3rd year.