MrFancyPlants
Masterpiece
I did the thing. The decandling thing. I did some needle cutting too, but maneuvering not as much as I should in that top section. I figure I’ll give it until next year to make some decisions on where I want it to go. 
Cork or peely bark JBP?
- Thread starter MrFancyPlants
- Start date
MrFancyPlants
Masterpiece
I need to read through Bonsai Tonight posts to see what comes next.
MrFancyPlants
Masterpiece
Getting some density on this one.. not even wiring it. Still not sure quite how to go with the sacrifice, but it is coming along. A few more of cmeg’s material on deck for some whacking.
Mike Westervelt
Chumono
Seems like the sacrifice has done its job, that base is looking great!
I would cut it off leaving a stub long enough to keep the sap from getting on the trunk and let it die back gradually.
Then during next winter, create a short stubby jin or alternately carve out and cut paste to encourage wound healing
I would cut it off leaving a stub long enough to keep the sap from getting on the trunk and let it die back gradually.
Then during next winter, create a short stubby jin or alternately carve out and cut paste to encourage wound healing
MrFancyPlants
Masterpiece
you and my brother in law have convinced me to sacrifice the second sacrifice. I might start a new sacrifice higher up.
However, I am going to wait until the older needles brown up a bit and I will attempt to induce further fire morphology. Yes, I will immolate the branch. Maybe it is more of an immoliant branch?
It take care of the drippy sap problem too!
This is the remnants of the main immoliant. It needs some dremel work, but I’ll wait until I have some steadier hands to do the work for me.
MrFancyPlants
Masterpiece
Can someone point me to a good article on when I should select for bifurcation? July 23 worked well for me for decandling, but then I missed a step and have nearly too much density? Do most people wire in the winter/ early spring and select pairs of balanced buds at that point? Or control the buds when they are extending for the second time in fall?
MrFancyPlants
Masterpiece
I read through a bonsai tonight write up again, with an eye towards what the next step is after decandling.
He says you can wire when you decandle. I think for me, for bifurcation, I’ll select buds and balance in the winter or early spring after the second set of buds are fully extended.
I did clean off some of the upward pointing buds today, and played around with the sacrifice extension of the first branch. I realized I missed doing bud selection after decandling last year, I think I am ok missing it once, but I don’t want to have to deal with “pig knuckles” in the branches’ future.
The other thing I am planning around is I’ll be out of town for when I decandled last year. Do you think pushing it back another 10 days would be too late. I’m pretty happy w the needle size and seems to have tons of vigor.
He says you can wire when you decandle. I think for me, for bifurcation, I’ll select buds and balance in the winter or early spring after the second set of buds are fully extended.
I did clean off some of the upward pointing buds today, and played around with the sacrifice extension of the first branch. I realized I missed doing bud selection after decandling last year, I think I am ok missing it once, but I don’t want to have to deal with “pig knuckles” in the branches’ future.
The other thing I am planning around is I’ll be out of town for when I decandled last year. Do you think pushing it back another 10 days would be too late. I’m pretty happy w the needle size and seems to have tons of vigor.
MrFancyPlants
Masterpiece
@River's Edge do you have any tips for me on developing branching and managing vigor?
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
First off the tree looks very healthy and in great shape to continue working. This is more than half the battle. When I look through your recent pictures I see considerable density with a distinct lack of direction. Your question is spot on.
Steps that are often missed are the follow up to cut back and dealing with the effects of decandling.
It appears that you are not reducing down to two buds after decandling and perhaps you are keeping all the back buds that occur. It also appears that you have not been practicing any needle reduction in congested areas.
It is not fair for me to suggest what happened , only you will know what steps were taken or missed. One of the main difficulties with advice over the internet is deciding how much detail can be included in a response. Most techniques involve several steps that may or may not be used depending on the circumstances. Developing branch structure is one of those for sure. It also helps if the individual understand that each branch cannot be treated the same when they are developing at different rates.
When you cut back to induce back budding, one should also wire down if needed, and reduce needles in areas buds are not decided or where they may shade out desired existing buds. Buds that are not in desirable location will be removed unless needed for health and keeping the branch going strong until new buds are in the desired positions. When you go back to read the last sentence you will note that choices need to be made each time based on the individual branch.
When you decandle the newly formed buds will be thinned down to two, unless the design calls for less in that position. Usually two of similar strength that are side to side. Those pointing down or up are usually the first to go. This may change if directional change is desired and the position and angle of the buds suit the directional change.
In both cut back and decandling it is important to time the development of interior buds, giving them sufficient time to develop strongly before reducing the branch and building out from the new shoots. Think approximately two to three growing seasons.
Bifurcation occurs from selecting appropriately located new buds and thinning the surrounding areas of extra needles and unwanted buds in order to give them the space and time to develop.
Boon created an excellent series of DVD.s on Black Pine. The one that would benefit you the most at this point in time is entitled " Fall maintenance"
I feel willing even mentioning this but here goes. When I go back through this thread I notice a distinct lack of wire. It appears that you are attempting to style a pine without wire. All new growth will turn up regardless of initial position. It is very difficult to open up the branching to develop new buds without the use of wire. Boon expresses it in this manner.
" Wiring is essential to creating bonsai that reflect your skill and effort. When you wire, you do more than just train a bonsai; you open up the interior to get more light, thereby stimulating new growth."
"Needle pulling, pruning and bud thinning techniques preparing JBP for the new growing season"
When one has new healthy shoots to create branching from, the first thing to be done is to wire out and down opening up and beginning to form pads.
So I would also suggest checking out the Boon DVD " Wiring and Styling: Japanese Black Pine"
Full Caveat, I understand that similar instructional material may be available from many other sources,
Apologies if my comments are too direct. I try to go direct to what I think.
MrFancyPlants
Masterpiece
Thank you Frank,
I always appreciate your input, even if I am, at times, a flawed student/listener.
I’ll definitely try to check out the Boon fall maintenance video you reference. I agree it is always a decision process in bud selection, and there really are infinite options in skinning a bonsai cat.
I very rarely wire.. I have a minor disability that impacts my balance and fine motor skills. But, whenever my brother in law comes to town he can put a fine or thick wire on my trees every year or two. He usually visits in January. An electrician by study and trade, he is an asset as I have brought him into the ranks of the bonsai afflicted.
I have learned to make due with clip and grow, and give my brother in law plenty to do when he comes to visit.
I certainly missed some steps last year, but I figure I can go a little harder when it comes to decandle time this year, reducing branches, cutting needles and selecting for balance and bifurcation.
I always appreciate your input, even if I am, at times, a flawed student/listener.
I’ll definitely try to check out the Boon fall maintenance video you reference. I agree it is always a decision process in bud selection, and there really are infinite options in skinning a bonsai cat.
I very rarely wire.. I have a minor disability that impacts my balance and fine motor skills. But, whenever my brother in law comes to town he can put a fine or thick wire on my trees every year or two. He usually visits in January. An electrician by study and trade, he is an asset as I have brought him into the ranks of the bonsai afflicted.
I have learned to make due with clip and grow, and give my brother in law plenty to do when he comes to visit.
I certainly missed some steps last year, but I figure I can go a little harder when it comes to decandle time this year, reducing branches, cutting needles and selecting for balance and bifurcation.
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
Observation of the thread. Post #49 March of 23 would have been an excellent time to apply light wire to new shoots and begin the branch/pad development.
Impossible in my opinion to develop pines with clip and grow. You have done an amazing job of creating new shoots and branches to begin development of mature branching patterns and pad formation. Getting past this point will require wire or other methods of training the branches for direction and movement while further developing side shoots and pad formation. Wire on pines is often left on for a year or more before removal.
Just a few additional thoughts. The material you are working with has very nice potential, hope you are able to find someone to work along side you with your direction to achieve the outcome desired. If I lived nearby I would be happy to help out. Unfortunately their seems to be a bit of distance between Vancouver Island and South Carolina.
Best in Bonsai
Frank
MrFancyPlants
Masterpiece
I do need to find a local bonsai community in Myrtle, but I appreciate the thought. That March ‘23 timeframe you mention, was when we repotted out of the Anderson flat, in preparation for the move from the DC area.
Though far from ideal, I think I can work around only wiring every couple of years, as long as I can keep the vigor pumping.
I think Steven Ash turned me on to the AgriForm fertilizer pellets. A couple of these and a yard tree is like it is working out and putting on weight.
MrFancyPlants
Masterpiece
@Bonsai Nut can you please update tile to
“Barky JBP from airlayer 2013”
Thank you; you da best!
MFP
“Barky JBP from airlayer 2013”
Thank you; you da best!
MFP
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