Cool lil pine I found today
- Thread starter benw3790
- Start date
Martin Sweeney
Chumono
Vance,
Sikadelic does not possess the tree in question, Benw3790 does.
Sikadelic was discussing the Loblolly pine, Pinus taeda, which is a poor choice for bonsai and is more prevalent in his part of North Carolina.
Regards,
Martin
Jason_mazzy
Chumono
scrub pines make nice bonsai and have naturally short needles. Loblolly would be junk with there 10 inch needles.
garywood
Chumono
Arguably, there are two US pines that have the most incredible bark. Ponderosa and Taeda (loblolly). Both are three needle pines with long needles which lends itself to larger bonsai. They are "large" pines in their environment with unrestricted growth but both can be good bonsai. With all the pine technique discussions lately this is very timely. Ponderosa is a (1) technique and loblolly a (2) technique. Loblolly makes a very credible bonsai with great bark if proper needle management is used.
Martin Sweeney
Chumono
Gary,
I would be interested to know if you have any P taeda bonsai. I also like their bark, but having understood that they are genetically predisposed to drop lower branches (unlike Japanese black pine for instance) and that the needles are very long even when reduced, I have always avoided them.
Regards,
Martin
garywood
Chumono
Martin, I do have Pinus taeda, loblolly, and think this is probably the strongest pine we work with. Timing on candle removable and fall needle selection gets you in the ballpark. If you get the chance, play with them. Strong tree lots of options! I can't post photos here but we can still talk technique.
sikadelic
Chumono
I have no experience with the loblolly and have been interested in trying my hand at one just to learn a bit about pines. Although I know the different species are vastly different, I assume the ability to just keep one alive would be beneficial to me as their preferences of soil, moisture, etc. would likely be similar.
That is an interesting little pine...be patient and get it established...then you should be able to do almost anything with it!!
I have always thought that P. virginiana would make decent bonsai with its short needles and decent bark. However, I was never able to successfully collect any that had any age to them at all. Frustrating...ground to pot a real challenge!
I finally located some small seedlings and asked permission to collect them from a neighbors front yard. No problem, collected 50 6"-12" seedlings and put them directly into a grow bed. About 10 died, but the rest survived and thrived! For the next year I just let them grow. One mistake I made was planting too close together...they were fine in the beginning but as they got to 3-4' tall they were much too close together. I pruned hard in June of the second season and all trees responded with vigorous back budding and regrowth...so I pruned hard again in late July and was reward with even more budding and regrowth...needless to say this can be a very vigorous species when grown in the ground. Things are looking good but is the real challenge going to be moving them to a pot??
In early Spring of the 3rd season it was time to thin the growing bed and move a few into pots. I choose about a dozen to dig and move into nursery containers. I neglected to mention that I had removed the taproots when I originally planted the seedlings...this was good...the trees came out with nice lateral roots and I was hopeful that they would transition well to pots... Unfortunately I lost all but 4... My best estimation was that I was too early...it seemed to take too long before the trees started to grow. They were also difficult to stabilize in the containers and it is possible that the high winds of Spring didn't do the new roots tips any favors. The good news is that I now have 4 doing well in anderson flats.
The next Spring I waited a till mid spring and tried again...same results...a 3 out of 10 survived.
The following year I waited until the trees were actively growing...late spring/early summer...success was only marginally better.
Ultimately out of 40 seedlings, I have 9 or 10 P. virginiana in containers now...one note, I discarded about 25% trees due to a total lack of potential from growing too close together
What I think I have learned thus far...
1. very vigorous growers and can easily have all new growth removed 2-3 times a year when in the ground...twice in a container.
2. needles reduce well but maintain the twist...so far I am not sure this will ever make a "well-manicured" bonsai...but it might with time.
3. very tough to transition from ground to pot culture!!!! But, once in the pot it seems to do just fine. Be sure to secure the tree well in its container.
4. Bark development is slow...faster growing trees seem to develop sooner...my largest tree has the most developed bark...
5. Very susceptible to tip moth but the end result is just more buds
6. And the real kicker that I am sure will raise a stink...is that I have had a zero survival rate in bonsai soil...the only trees I had make it were/are in a quality potting soil...eeek!!!
I definitely think this is a species that more people should be working with!!
Here are a couple pics of a group(3 of the first 4 survivors) I put together to resemble the tall pines that we have here in the Southeast. This is just after wiring, pruning and needle cutting this past May.
I have also been playing with about 50 Coastal Loblollys...perhaps more to come in the future on these but it is still early.
John
I have always thought that P. virginiana would make decent bonsai with its short needles and decent bark. However, I was never able to successfully collect any that had any age to them at all. Frustrating...ground to pot a real challenge!
I finally located some small seedlings and asked permission to collect them from a neighbors front yard. No problem, collected 50 6"-12" seedlings and put them directly into a grow bed. About 10 died, but the rest survived and thrived! For the next year I just let them grow. One mistake I made was planting too close together...they were fine in the beginning but as they got to 3-4' tall they were much too close together. I pruned hard in June of the second season and all trees responded with vigorous back budding and regrowth...so I pruned hard again in late July and was reward with even more budding and regrowth...needless to say this can be a very vigorous species when grown in the ground. Things are looking good but is the real challenge going to be moving them to a pot??
In early Spring of the 3rd season it was time to thin the growing bed and move a few into pots. I choose about a dozen to dig and move into nursery containers. I neglected to mention that I had removed the taproots when I originally planted the seedlings...this was good...the trees came out with nice lateral roots and I was hopeful that they would transition well to pots... Unfortunately I lost all but 4... My best estimation was that I was too early...it seemed to take too long before the trees started to grow. They were also difficult to stabilize in the containers and it is possible that the high winds of Spring didn't do the new roots tips any favors. The good news is that I now have 4 doing well in anderson flats.
The next Spring I waited a till mid spring and tried again...same results...a 3 out of 10 survived.
The following year I waited until the trees were actively growing...late spring/early summer...success was only marginally better.
Ultimately out of 40 seedlings, I have 9 or 10 P. virginiana in containers now...one note, I discarded about 25% trees due to a total lack of potential from growing too close together
What I think I have learned thus far...
1. very vigorous growers and can easily have all new growth removed 2-3 times a year when in the ground...twice in a container.
2. needles reduce well but maintain the twist...so far I am not sure this will ever make a "well-manicured" bonsai...but it might with time.
3. very tough to transition from ground to pot culture!!!! But, once in the pot it seems to do just fine. Be sure to secure the tree well in its container.
4. Bark development is slow...faster growing trees seem to develop sooner...my largest tree has the most developed bark...
5. Very susceptible to tip moth but the end result is just more buds
6. And the real kicker that I am sure will raise a stink...is that I have had a zero survival rate in bonsai soil...the only trees I had make it were/are in a quality potting soil...eeek!!!
I definitely think this is a species that more people should be working with!!
Here are a couple pics of a group(3 of the first 4 survivors) I put together to resemble the tall pines that we have here in the Southeast. This is just after wiring, pruning and needle cutting this past May.
I have also been playing with about 50 Coastal Loblollys...perhaps more to come in the future on these but it is still early.
John
Last edited:
Jason_mazzy
Chumono
I pulled some Virginia scrub yamadori. some are a bit too straight but I have noticed they back bud well onto the bark so My plan is to keep cutting back every year until I get many lower branches. Then I will have some 5 inch trunks with low branching and a great place to start.
Eric Group
Masterpiece
Red cedar- You think they are all junk? I have to disagree... I know there are challenges to making a refined bonsai with that species, but they have some great features too! The trunks and branches develop such great, curving interesting shapes. The wood is almost indestructible it is so hard, and takes years to rot away even if untreated small dead wood on a bonsai. The trees themselves are strong, vibrant and tough to kill which I think we all agree is a good quality for bonsai which is commonly confused with tree torture especially when carried out by the inexperienced among us... The challenges come with the spikey, hard/ downright PAINFUL to work with foliage. It does create the attractive mature scale juniper foliage eventually, but reverts sporadically back to needle immature foliage... And the growth can be a bit stringy and long if left unchecked, but does respond decently to pruning and will shape up ok. My Mother has one we have worked on for years and while she went with more of a "Pom Pom"/ topiary shape for it, the tree has a great looking trunk, interesting roots and if I was to simply develop more of a "candle"/ "flame" shape to it I think it would pass as a serviceable bonsai today...
Why do you feel they are all junk Vance?
Eric Group
Masterpiece
That is a beautiful group John! I really want to come see your place one day soon...That is an interesting little pine...be patient and get it established...then you should be able to do almost anything with it!!
I have always thought that P. virginiana would make decent bonsai with its short needles and decent bark. However, I was never able to successfully collect any that had any age to them at all. Frustrating...ground to pot a real challenge!
I finally located some small seedlings and asked permission to collect them from a neighbors front yard. No problem, collected 50 6"-12" seedlings and put them directly into a grow bed. About 10 died, but the rest survived and thrived! For the next year I just let them grow. One mistake I made was planting too close together...they were fine in the beginning but as they got to 3-4' tall they were much too close together. I pruned hard in June of the second season and all trees responded with vigorous back budding and regrowth...so I pruned hard again in late July and was reward with even more budding and regrowth...needless to say this can be a very vigorous species when grown in the ground. Things are looking good but is the real challenge going to be moving them to a pot??
In early Spring of the 3rd season it was time to thin the growing bed and move a few into pots. I choose about a dozen to dig and move into nursery containers. I neglected to mention that I had removed the taproots when I originally planted the seedlings...this was good...the trees came out with nice lateral roots and I was hopeful that they would transition well to pots... Unfortunately I lost all but 4... My best estimation was that I was too early...it seemed to take too long before the trees started to grow. They were also difficult to stabilize in the containers and it is possible that the high winds of Spring didn't do the new roots tips any favors. The good news is that I now have 4 doing well in anderson flats.
The next Spring I waited a till mid spring and tried again...same results...a 3 out of 10 survived.
The following year I waited until the trees were actively growing...late spring/early summer...success was only marginally better.
Ultimately out of 40 seedlings, I have 9 or 10 P. virginiana in containers now...one note, I discarded about 25% trees due to a total lack of potential from growing too close together
What I think I have learned thus far...
1. very vigorous growers and can easily have all new growth removed 2-3 times a year when in the ground...twice in a container.
2. needles reduce well but maintain the twist...so far I am not sure this will ever make a "well-manicured" bonsai...but it might with time.
3. very tough to transition from ground to pot culture!!!! But, once in the pot it seems to do just fine. Be sure to secure the tree well in its container.
4. Bark development is slow...faster growing trees seem to develop sooner...my largest tree has the most developed bark...
5. Very susceptible to tip moth but the end result is just more buds
6. And the real kicker that I am sure will raise a stink...is that I have had a zero survival rate in bonsai soil...the only trees I had make it were/are in a quality potting soil...eeek!!!
I definitely think this is a species that more people should be working with!!
Here are a couple pics of a group(3 of the first 4 survivors) I put together to resemble the tall pines that we have here in the Southeast. This is just after wiring, pruning and needle cutting this past May.
I have also been playing with about 50 Coastal Loblollys...perhaps more to come in the future on these but it is still early.
John
My brother lives up in the mountains in Virginia and they have so many Of these Virginia Pines on properties around them I thought sure somewhere on his 2+ acres I would find a bunch of them... NOTHING! I did find a group of a couple dozen white pines and collected one- it is in a pot for a month or two now... Hard to tell if he is doing well since it is the winter, but he is still green and the new growth tips look fine, so I assume he will spit out some growth for me in the Spring...
I have one small seedling I grabbed and stuck in a planting bed in the corner of my garden that is suspect is a lob Lolly, so I am interested to see how he does in the coming season... I have never seen a pick a successful Lob Lolly bonsai, and would love to see some pics of the ones you are working on if you get a chance to post them. I know you said they aren't real far along... I can get these just about anywhere it seems. It would make collecting suitable species a lot easier for me if they were easy to make something out of...
Jason_mazzy
Chumono
John: The group here is Virginia correct?
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