Collecting California Junipers with JC - I thought I could out collect Harry Hirao!

[Juniperus Californica]

This last weekend (3-31-12), I had the priviledge of collecting California Junipers with Harry Hirao and a few other bonsai enthusiasts. I was thinking about which tree I could give Harry as a thank you because I had collected 7 (a pretty good number in about 4 hours) & my SUV was pretty full.

After all, Harry is 95 years old and even he'll admit, he's slowed down a little.

 

[Juniperus Californica]

Harry and 2 other guys totally blew me away! Never think you can out do the master! The next time I'm lucky enough to go digging, I'm hiring Harry's crew!

 

[Juniperus Californica]

OK, here's the latest on getting these babys to live after collecting...

Here is one of the Cal Junipers and how I potted it. The tree had a lot of mountain soil on the roots, so instead of trying to get it all off at once, I soaked the tree over night. The next day the soil was mud and came off easily.

Next, I cut off the stump so it will fit easily in a bonsai pot (assuming it lives) and I sealed it. I've found I have fewer problems with plants when I seal all large cuts, even at the root level.

The tree goes into a "Root Maker" pot, I add some mycorrhizal (some juniper needles with white stuff in it, I think it's mycorrhizal), then goes akadama (not shown), then finally either pumice (washed) or black volcanic scoria. The trees seem to like the Akadama and I understand that it hold nutrients for the plant.

Next, I water the plant with water that has had the chlorine & chloramine neutralized and the pH adjusted to 5.8 - 6.0. When rooting cuttings, the experts tell me the pH of the medium must be 5.6 - 5.8 and the root zone needs to be kept at around 68 - 70 degrees for optimal results. Since I'm treating these plants like cuttings, I'm following their advice.

When I first started collecting, I didn't know whether to cut the foliage back or not. But now, I total remove all tips and any excess foliage and here's why. First, I remove excess foliage so the tree can efficiently use stored nutrients in the trunk until it starts to grow. Secondly, by removing the needle tips to deplete the tree of Auxins, which inhibit the growth of lateral buds. The tree will release another hormone, cytokinin which induces shoot formation.

Since the trees are in my greenhouse, I will only mist the trees mornings & evenings and I won't water them until they start to push new growth (over watering is the kiss of death). When misting the trees, get the foliage & the trunk wet too.

Please let me know your experiences with California Junipers because I'm still learning. And thank you to Harry Hirao and his crew for a very inspiring day!!!!!!!

Your Bonsai Buddy, with lots of Hugs and Kisses
JC

 

[Bob]

Thanks for your post JC. Good luck with your juni's

 

[alonsou]

That is some very impressive collecting job JC, I had the opportunity to be part of the team that Harry takes to the desert back at the beginning of the month and it was a great experience, I fall a little bit shy behind your total amount of collected trees (just 1 ) but I really enjoyed. Do you know of any upcoming plans for another dig? Would love to join if there's an open spot for another vehicle!

Good luck with your trees!

 

[Dan W.]

What is the survival rate of these desert junipers?

 

[alonsou]

What is the survival rate of these desert junipers?

I read somewhere, that Harry Hirao, has a 90-95% survival rate, but then again, he's been doing that for the last 40 years or so, some others report a 50/50 chance to make it. My personal percentage its about 70-75%,perhaps a little lower, but I just been collecting for a few years.

 

[Dan W.]

Thanks alonsou, It seems like one would be taking a big chance with desert trees. But then again the pictures look like they show a fairly compact root mass.

 

[alonsou]

JC, would you mind if I share what I was taught and how I do it on my end?, some of the processes seems very similar but at least I think its worth it to compare several "methods" and take the best out of everyone

Here is one of the Cal Junipers and how I potted it. The tree had a lot of mountain soil on the roots, so instead of trying to get it all off at once, I soaked the tree over night. The next day the soil was mud and came off easily.

I was told against removing soil and disturbing any roots, however, I did left mine soaked overnight on a bucket with some B-1 vitamins.

Next, I cut off the stump so it will fit easily in a bonsai pot (assuming it lives) and I sealed it. I've found I have fewer problems with plants when I seal all large cuts, even at the root level.

I never done that before, but seems right to do it, especially if you are removing all the "original" soil.

The tree goes into a "Root Maker" pot, I add some mycorrhizal (some juniper needles with white stuff in it, I think it's mycorrhizal), then goes akadama (not shown), then finally either pumice (washed) or black volcanic scoria. The trees seem to like the Akadama and I understand that it hold nutrients for the plant.

I read before about using the death needles (I think it was on one of your previous post) and if the white stuff on it, its indeed micorrhizal, there's no doubt it should help the new guy in the pot. My selection for soil, its %100 pure horticultural washed pumice, just like Harry does.

Next, I water the plant with water that has had the chlorine & chloramine neutralized and the pH adjusted to 5.8 - 6.0. When rooting cuttings, the experts tell me the pH of the medium must be 5.6 - 5.8 and the root zone needs to be kept at around 68 - 70 degrees for optimal results. Since I'm treating these plants like cuttings, I'm following their advice.

This also seems right to do it, I would like to ask you if you would mind to elaborate a little more about what exactly do you do to neutralize the pH.

When I first started collecting, I didn't know whether to cut the foliage back or not. But now, I total remove all tips and any excess foliage and here's why. First, I remove excess foliage so the tree can efficiently use stored nutrients in the trunk until it starts to grow. Secondly, by removing the needle tips to deplete the tree of Auxins, which inhibit the growth of lateral buds. The tree will release another hormone, cytokinin which induces shoot formation.

I was also told to cut the excess foliage, mostly, in an effort to try to balance the remaining roots (after the dig) with all the remaining foliage, pretty much if I left too much foliage, the tree will not be strong enough to keep it all alive and will weaken eventually, interesting knowing about the hormones being released after removing the excess foliage.

Since the trees are in my greenhouse, I will only mist the trees mornings & evenings and I won't water them until they start to push new growth (over watering is the kiss of death). When misting the trees, get the foliage & the trunk wet too.

I water the trees completely, every third day, and mist every single evening, mines are under a shed, no sunlight at all, at least not for a couple of months until they get a little stronger. I've already started fertilizing with Green King, and fish emulsion, so far, I already see some new growth being pushed

 

[Juniperus Californica]

Alonsou,

Some people have said not to remove the mountain soil, however, my experience has been that if I leave the mountain soil on, the roots stay too wet and they eventually rot out (remember over watering is the kiss of death). This is why I get rid of all the mountain soil (I loosen it up by soaking) then I replace it with myccorhizal (dead needles). Mind you, I don't wash off the roots, I simply take a chop stick and knock off the soil.

As far a balancing the pH, I use a product called "pH down" and I have a pH meter that allows me to get the pH in the 5.8 - 6.2 range. Also, I have an air pump that airates my water supply. Now the reason for all of this is, when the pH is too high nutrients are "locked out" and the plant can't absorb them. Also, nutrients bond to oxygen in water and by airating my water, I'm giving the plant the optimal conditions for absorbing nutrients. Neutralizing the chlorine & chloramines allows beneficial bacteria to grow in the soil, and who doesn't want that?

I've found that it's a balancing act with these plants, sometimes you make it across the high wire, other times you fall off. But no matter what happens, I try to learn from each experience. Let me know what you think, we're all students.

JC

 

[Dwight]

Boy I bet the Missus was glad to see this load come home. Where are you sleeping now ?

 

[snowsurf125]

Hey alonsou, I had a question regarding something you said...


"I read before about using the death needles (I think it was on one of your previous post) and if the white stuff on it, its indeed micorrhizal, there's no doubt it should help the new guy in the pot. My selection for soil, its %100 pure horticultural washed pumice, just like Harry does."

I spoke with Harry and one of his helpers, Tom, at the Bonsai-a-thon back in the end of February when they worked on a large Cal. Juni he collected. I had a look at his soil in the nursery can it was definitely not pumice. It looked much more like dirt and regular soil (what cal. juni's grow in naturally). I asked them about the soil specifically and they said it was just dg (decomposed granite) from the mountains where they dug it from, which I took to mean, the original natural soil they were in, or something close to it. I asked about other soils like Akadama and pumice and they said just the dg where it came from.

Do you know if Harry uses different soil depending on where it was collected? Or has he changed what he uses in the last couple of years? It would seem odd to me that he would change his soil mix in a matter of a few years (the tree he was working on was probably collected within the last 3 years) and tell me his old regiment for collecting if he has changed. But then again, they didn't know me or who I was or anything about me, so they may have just been giving me very general knowledge and tips, which is what it seemed like at the time anyway.

Any thoughts?

 

[alonsou]

snowsurf125,

For the last 2 Christmas parties from the club, I've been the winner of a couple of Harry's collected Juni's, looking at the current condition of the soil, there's seems to be some DG but just an small percentage, all the rest its Pumice.

During the last trip to Mojave, at the beginning of March I spent a good amount of time along with Manny Martinez and Paul Vassina, (Manny is the current Kofu Kai President, and Paul has been collecting Juni's with Kofu since 1982) and both of them had different opinions about DG use, Manny told me to not disturb the roots, while Paul mentioned to removed the "old" soil. However both of them agreed to not use native soil for potting on a plastic container but only Pumice.

I have not asked Harry specifically about what he really uses, again, on both of the trees there was some DG but mostly Pumice, on the next Kofu meeting, I'll make sure and will ask him personally and get you an answer about it.

 

[snowsurf125]

Thanks for the insight. I've been thinking about trying to join kofu kai and/or descanso, seeing as there are no clubs up in the high desert. Hopefully we will meet in the future and chat a bit. Thanks again

 

[snowsurf125]

Hey JC,
I have about 5 or 6 collected Cal Junis from this last season and I try to mist/spray the folliage a few times a day. I usually try once or twice in the morning, once or twice in the mid day to keep the moisture up and heat down due to my hot desert climate, and once or twice in the evening.
I was wondering if there were particular times that are better for misting the folliage (earlier morning around 6-8 am), and same with the evening time (5-8 pm)? I also was wondering your thoughts on misting during the day as well as if misting 5-6 times through out the day would be more beneficial or harmful, in or out of a dry desert climate like I am in?
Thanks for the information. Your collecting posts have taught me a ton. Thanks again!

 

[Juniperus Californica]

Well Snowsurf,

I'm glad you've found my pearls of wisdom helpful, however they're only pearls if your trees live! As far as misting trees, I've found that humidity is the key, so if you could keep the tree in a greenhouse or bag it in some way, you'll have much better success. Be careful with bagging because if it gets too hot, you'll have roasted Cal Juniper.

In the desert, the tree collects moisture during the morning & evening when the Stomata open up. During the heat of the day, the tree clams up to conserve water. But, if you can keep your collected tree in a cool shaded area, I believe you can mist at anytime. However, bag the pot if you can because you want the roots to stay moist, NOT WET! I can't tell you how many times I've pulled dead junipers out of 15 gallon nursery pots, thinking they were dry, and the bottom was soaking wet. That's right, trees die on me and it pisses me off! Just when I think I know the answers to keeping these trees alive the bastards die on me (It's usually when I get lazy or when I think I can get by without doing something).

Let us know if and when your trees start to pop, they'll either pop juvenile growth at the tips of the existing foliage or from the crotches. I don't recommend fertilizing until after the tree has really started popping out and then I use partial strength.

Good luck my child, if you ever need help digging, let uncle JC know and he'll be glad to tag along.

JC

 

[vallinjm]

Hi guys, it’s always a pleasure to read your post because it’s the primary way on how I get the best information on how to care for my Collected California Junipers (CCJ). After talking to Harry I also started misting about eight times a day and it has helped. The area that has been the biggest challenge is in knowing when to actually water the soil. The first method I used was the chopstick in the pot method, but the problem with this method is the chop stick is the last to dry. Now all I do is keep a pot with no tree, but full of the soil that I use in the same area as the CCJ and periodically dig my hands in the pot to feel how wet or dry the soil is and base my watering on that. Please keep in mind that you have to make adjustments based on where you live because of the small changes in the environment.

 

[edprocoat]

I have never dealt with a CCJ but I have always had success retaining and mixing a small amount of the original soil into any mix I put my Bonsai in. I feel its like returning it to its original environment in a small way, it seems as if these trees have lived in the soil they are used to it must be beneficial to at least have some of that to ease the shock of being repotted. I have nothing other than success at keeping trees alive and my instincts on this practise for proof, but it works for me. Let me qualify this by adding I do not collect trees in the wild, I have often been tempted to but I see them growing I feel I would personally rather "collect" from a nursery or garden center and attempt to mimic a tree than to disturb what nature has so beautifully wrought.

ed

 

[vallinjm]

Hi Ed,
One of the primary concerns when collecting California Junipers is in developing good root system as soon as possible. This is the primary reason why Pumice, Red Lava rock, or black volcanic scoria is used. These substrates are excellent in helping develop a vibrant root system. Typically the soil I have encountered while out on a dig is usually hardpan clay and rocks, which in my opinion is the worst type of soil for developing roots, at least the hardpan clay is. This year I have been on about six collecting trips and all have been in places where the tree’s I collected would have been destroyed to clear the land. One person needed to install solar panels, another person wanted to build a storage area, and another person wanted an open area for his horses to roam etc. I live about 20 minutes away from areas where I can dig California Junipers and do it legally and with very appreciative land owners who were going to have the trees destroyed if I didn’t dig them out.