collected Hawthorn

[RoadManDenDron]

I have seen where the previous straight chop of a thick trunk has been carved into character with taper,

An example would be @Brian Van Fleet hawthorn from the progression thread resource (https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/collected-hawthorn-history.5761/)

I have recently carried out some branch selection and wired for initial shape setting, now my thoughts are to let the branches thicken and then carve the top, is this correct?

I am itching to carve or at least make a start on the v cut but I guess I should wait until the leader and other top branch are wide enough or it may look like inverse taper?

I have probably left too many branches on the way up and may thin these as time goes on, just seeing it as keeping options open

Any advice welcomed

 

[Cajunrider]

I have seen where the previous straight chop of a thick trunk has been carved into character with taper,

An example would be @Brian Van Fleet hawthorn from the progression thread resource (https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/collected-hawthorn-history.5761/)

I have recently carried out some branch selection and wired for initial shape setting, now my thoughts are to let the branches thicken and then carve the top, is this correct?

I am itching to carve or at least make a start on the v cut but I guess I should wait until the leader and other top branch are wide enough or it may look like inverse taper?

I have probably left too many branches on the way up and may thin these as time goes on, just seeing it as keeping options open

Any advice welcomed

View attachment 500075View attachment 500079

Look up posts by @BobbyLane. I've seen lots of excellent examples of carving to shape trees in his threads.

For my May hawthorns I typically just use on branch from the cut if I intend to extend the trunk and use the chop to establish taper. If this is the case I prune off other shoots and leave one. I will only carve when the one I select gets to decent size and the callus rollover is starting.
I only use multiple branches from the cut if I intend to make the tree ending canopy right above the chop. In this case, I start the carving as soon as the multiple branches get to pencil size.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Nice find.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

@Cajunrider thanks, if i may seek clarification, I am not sure if I am going straight into canopy, I am looking at similar to BVF's here



at the moment my branches are about pencil thick but I would like them maybe twice that wide maybe a little more at the base, would you recommend waiting until they are the thickness I am happy with?

i have had a look a Bobby's posts and came across this one


This is similar carving to what I had in mind but I notice the branches are quite thin, didn't see any later pics to see if they were thicker later and how this calloused etc.

(Any tips about lower branch placement also welcomed)

 

[BobbyLane]

Bare in mind yours doesnt have the base like the images you posted, thats something to consider. On a straight trunk you need a good nebari to carry the tree imho. I dunno maybe once its strong and fully recovered I would just hollow the trunk out to give it some interest, because the base has none, if you understand what im saying. But it does have a little flare, I would also bury deeper. Plenty of venerable trees in our woodlands to draw inspiration from.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

@BobbyLane I have been kicking myself and running through the idea that I maybe picked the wrong front as there is much better movement from image 2 below, what do you think?

I think i was caught up in the width of the base and gave that too much weight.

When I bought it I was expecting quite a low chop but I am now hoping to work higher up

 

[BobbyLane]

@BobbyLane I have been kicking myself and running through the idea that I maybe picked the wrong front as there is much better movement from image 2 below, what do you think?

I think i was caught up in the width of the base and gave that too much weight.

When I bought it I was expecting quite a low chop but I am now hoping to work higher up

Yes looks better with the kink low in base, those all look better. Did you see this one I had, played around with a few different angles and styles before settling on something, thats what it takes sometimes, living with the tree, walking past it in the yard, looking at it through the kitchen window, taking pics etc

Hawthorn

This is a newly acquired Hawthorn, here are some images after tidy up of moss and some branch pruning.. Aiming to keep it looking natural similar to the image below, it needs time to develop the branch structure and ramification/fine twigging. but i think it has character and potential..

www.bonsainut.com

 

[RoadManDenDron]

I didn't find that one earlier i will have a proper read tomorrow but the nebari looks amazing at a quick glance!

Do any of these angles stand out to you? I think 2 and 4 have the best movement but maybe 3 has the best base?

My concern is branches setting in place and realising I have built the tree in a bad angle

I have had to stop what I am doing to go look at this tree so many times already, running through ideas in my head haha

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

You can carve it now if you want. The character improves as the tree ages and starts to heal around the carved areas. Mine had a little dieback from the chop and so it was pretty easy to just carve away the dead area.

If I was to do mine over again from the stage yours is now, I would chop those leaders much shorter, and at varying heights, letting some grow longer and thicker first. The tree would have better taper and movement long run. Less about carving, but definitely more important and harder to fix later.

 

[The Warm Canuck]

@BobbyLane I have been kicking myself and running through the idea that I maybe picked the wrong front as there is much better movement from image 2 below, what do you think?

I think i was caught up in the width of the base and gave that too much weight.

When I bought it I was expecting quite a low chop but I am now hoping to work higher up

Maybe chopping to one of those lower shoots? to get rid of that straight top section and get some good taper? You already have a big scar anyways. Are you able to plant it in the ground?

 

[RoadManDenDron]

@Brian Van Fleet thank you! They are still really pretty thin so I think they may still benefit from some thickening but I will definitely learn from your experience and grow one much thicker than the other. Do you have a preferred base above?

@The Warm Canuck funny I was considering the same thing as you posted that! Sadly I don't have anywhere i can put it in the ground, but was considering the same kind of build as the top but much lower?

Like this much lower?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

@Brian Van Fleet thank you! They are still really pretty thin so I think they may still benefit from some thickening but I will definitely learn from your experience and grow one much thicker than the other. Do you have a preferred base above?

I would definitely use this as the front.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

@Brian Van Fleet Thank you I will use this one then, I am seriously considering chopping lower too, unless you can suggest other wise?

My plan is to practice carve at the top for now while maintaining growth and feeding for vigour and next year chop a lot of the straight section away and see what buds come back from there.

Then build an apex much like a planned with the existing top but much lower

 

[RoadManDenDron]

I have decided i may as well air layer in Spring when I make the chop,

Can anyone tell me how well these back bud and will it back bud on the older wood?

 

[BobbyLane]

yes of course if you allow them free runs of unchecked growth then cut back, they will back bud on old wood.