Collected elm

[rockm]

hello, I live in north Texas, Dallas area.
I collected this elm today from a wooded area that was getting bulldozed tomorrow.

It had already leafed out and I was not able to get many roots with it. It looks like a winged elm and elms near it all had those wings, but I am very new to this so I won't be betting anyone money on it.

My question is should I leave the leaves on, defoliate or trunk job low.

So far I have potted it, watered it and put into a shaded area.

Any advice appreciated thanks!

If you collected it Saturday, a little more disturbance isn't going to matter all that much three days later.

I'd chop (and seal the cut) the top straight portion of the trunk (leaving the dog leg crooked part) and defoliate. It does not need those leaves to develop new roots. Those leaves have no root system to support them. They are "asking" for water that can't be supplied. Remove them.

I'd then return it to bonsai soil and keep it moist. I'd also let it get some sun. Warmth at the roots will make them develop a bit faster. I wouldn't leave it out in full sun all day though. Three or four hours of morning sun will be fine.

Cedar elm are extremely tough. I've collected cedar elm bigger than this one in East Texas waaay out of season (like mid-summer) while in leaf. I chopped off all roots within eight inches of the trunk, washed off all the field soil, then shipped them across to my house in Virginia several times, with roots packed in wet sphagnum moss. They pushed buds in a couple of weeks. One waited until the following spring to push. I only discovered it as I was preparing to throw it on the woodpile as dead.

 

[Ross]

If you collected it Saturday, a little more disturbance isn't going to matter all that much three days later.

I'd chop (and seal the cut) the top straight portion of the trunk (leaving the dog leg crooked part) and defoliate. It does not need those leaves to develop new roots. Those leaves have no root system to support them. They are "asking" for water that can't be supplied. Remove them.

I'd then return it to bonsai soil and keep it moist. I'd also let it get some sun. Warmth at the roots will make them develop a bit faster. I wouldn't leave it out in full sun all day though. Three or four hours of morning sun will be fine.

Cedar elm are extremely tough. I've collected cedar elm bigger than this one in East Texas waaay out of season (like mid-summer) while in leaf. I chopped off all roots within eight inches of the trunk, washed off all the field soil, then shipped them across to my house in Virginia several times, with roots packed in wet sphagnum moss. They pushed buds in a couple of weeks. One waited until the following spring to push. I only discovered it as I was preparing to throw it on the woodpile as dead.

Hey Rock, what's going on? I've still been meaning to get a couple pics of my bigger elms that I promised you in a thread last fall. The two big ones were just repotted, so I can't move them in front of a neutral backdrop, but here's a quick cell pic from a couple weeks ago when they were leafing out. About the original question of the thread:

1. If the leaves aren't wilted by now, then there are enough roots to bring them water, so no point in defoliating, right?
2. This is not a good time for a "chop" as the tree is weak from out of season collection with minimal roots. If the primary purpose is survival, there is no reason to disturb it any more this year.
3. Just a technicality really, but we don't know yet if it's a Cedar elm, too early to call it that.

 

[rockm]

Nice CEs Ross.

Point taken on the leaves, but I still would remove them. Just because they have wilted doesn't mean they won't. There aren't that many to help the tree much. Removing them would focus resources on new root growth, instead of spreading it out having the tree try to do several things at once.

three days since repotting isn't going to make much of a difference. It would be different if another three days passed.

This is young material and its an elm in any case. Strong stock. It won't miss a beat with any of this. If it were older and had a more established root mass that at had been chopped, I'd be more cautious.

I've been trying to get down to Tyler in the Spring-ish time of year to get more CEs. There are literally thousands of them on my parents' 30 acres. Some very nice, but most have none of the character yours have. Straight as beanpoles, but a few have killer surface buttressing.

 

[Ross]

Nice CEs Ross.

Point taken on the leaves, but I still would remove them. Just because they have wilted doesn't mean they won't. There aren't that many to help the tree much. Removing them would focus resources on new root growth, instead of spreading it out having the tree try to do several things at once.

three days since repotting isn't going to make much of a difference. It would be different if another three days passed.

This is young material and its an elm in any case. Strong stock. It won't miss a beat with any of this. If it were older and had a more established root mass that at had been chopped, I'd be more cautious.

I've been trying to get down to Tyler in the Spring-ish time of year to get more CEs. There are literally thousands of them on my parents' 30 acres. Some very nice, but most have none of the character yours have. Straight as beanpoles, but a few have killer surface buttressing.

Well if you make it down this way next spring, shoot me a pm and maybe we can hook up and go collecting. My good friend's uncle owns a good chunk of land close to Sherman, full of elms and hackberry (and mesquite). I've been looking for collecting buddies in the area, but so far I've always been out there by myself. Hey RNbonsai you should come too!

 

[rockm]

I will pm you if I go down there. You had any success with mesquite?

 

[Ross]

I will pm you if I go down there. You had any success with mesquite?

I haven't ever tried for mesquite or hackberry, just grabbed a bunch of elms a few years ago and have been working on them since. The mesquite trees are daunting with their big thorns, and they form these impenetrable groves that force you to walk or drive around them. Their growth is pretty coarse too, so you'd need to get a big one, but the big ones have crazy deep root systems I think, and may be tough to collect.

 

[RNbonsai]

Heck yea, if you go out to get any let me know! I'd love to have soneone with experience. Ok so I'm torn on chopping now lol. Y'all both seem knowledgable. So far I haven't touched it and the leaves are the same as at collection.
It's getting a few hours of sun a day.
I think chopping would give potential for a better future bonsai right?
I'm not going to be devastated or anything if it dies, I'd just much rather it lived.

So that was me thinking out loud and still torn :/

 

[RNbonsai]

Ok so the leaves seem to be drying up some. Does that change things?

 

[Ross]

If the leaves are wilting it's not a great sign and you may want to cut them off.

 

[RNbonsai]

Ok so I did do a chip on it to where it was recommended earlier. The leaves were starting to dry out. I'll post a pic tonight and keep this updated live or die with result

 

[RNbonsai]

I think when I chopped it i moved it more than was good in the soil. I'm sure I disturbed roots. I thought it would cut easier. Did as easy as I was able so that may be a factor too if it dies.
Learning process

 

[Ross]

If it dies I have one I'll give you. It's nothing special, but about this size, maybe a little smaller.

 

[RNbonsai]

Ok here she is. Hopefully she pulls through.

Hard to turn that down Ross! Thanks, I haven't given up on her yet, I may be over optimistic but a little positivity never hurt anyone.
I'll let you know how she does. Either way I'd love to check out your trees sometime and get some pointers

 

[leatherback]

Hi,

No Elms to collect in this part of the world (Ever wonder why it is called DUTCH elm disease?) so cannot give you recommendation there. However, I am wondering why nobody commented on yoru substrate. If what I see on the picture is the substrate, and not some sort of cover, I feel it would be too coarse for a tree to get a hold on, especially when just collected. I would predfer to use a finer grained substrate. But .. No elms to collect here.

 

[RNbonsai]

It's in some dirt from the collection with perlite and lava rock(small). I covered it with large lava to try to give more support

 

[RNbonsai]

So I don't have a current pic- but it looks like the last pic- not a leaf or bud I can see. When I scratch I still find green though. How long would y'all think it will take to show life if it has it

 

[AaronThomas]

When I scratch I still find green though. How long would y'all think it will take to show life if it has it

Green is good! As I'm sure most folks will tell you there's not much of a set time schedule for trees to bounce back. I had two Elms drop leaves this year and both bounced back in about a month... but they also were not collected this year. Elms are tough buggers.... only time will tell. In the meantime.... I would keep on keepin on with Ross's advice....leave it be. Let it grow. Its probably worken like a MOFO to push new roots.

 

[aml1014]

I collected one in full leaf 4 days ago, I've for budds all over the place. Another that I collected just as budds were selling is lagging in comparison to the 3 I've dug in full leaf. I'm starting to think the elms here like to be collected during active growth.

Aaron

 

[RNbonsai]

Yep, for now it's just sitting and waiting. Every few days I look close but that's as much abuse as its gettin for now

 

[sorce]

I collected one in full leaf 4 days ago, I've for budds all over the place. Another that I collected just as budds were selling is lagging in comparison to the 3 I've dug in full leaf. I'm starting to think the elms here like to be collected during active growth.

Aaron

What was the root situation like?

The one I collected with mad roots is still slow.....as is the heavily rootpruned at repot one.

Sorce