Chinese Elm stagnant growth

[Anhosustali]

I have had my Chinese Elm for about 14 months. I keep it indoors, and bottom water it. Periodically it will be knocked loose by nerf bullets or by the dog; I always try to replant it as soon as I can. My problem is the tree isn’t growing. All the young branches curl up, and the leaves grow in little clumps. I have tried fertilizer but nothing seems to work. Help!
I have attached some images to help you see what I am working with.

 

[River's Edge]

I have had my Chinese Elm for about 14 months. I keep it indoors, and bottom water it. Periodically it will be knocked loose by nerf bullets or by the dog; I always try to replant it as soon as I can. My problem is the tree isn’t growing. All the young branches curl up, and the leaves grow in little clumps. I have tried fertilizer but nothing seems to work. Help!
I have attached some images to help you see what I am working with.

It would be helpful if you indicated where you live, the climate matters. Chinese Elm are usually kept outdoors and are vigorous plants under normal conditions. Lighting conditions can also make a difference. You mention bottom watering but not the type of soil mix the plant is in. Is it possible that the roots are sitting in water? Your images do not show the container or tray setup.

 

[Anhosustali]

okay. Here is the additional information.
I live in Utah so winters are cold and summers are hot and dry. I have kept my bonsai in side for its whole life. I keep it next to a window and it gets about 6-9 hours of sunlight. I used this potting mix from Home Depot mixed with my out side dirt and the dirt in came in. The way I water is a Tupperware that the pot sits in. I fill up the Tupperware with just enough water to moisten the dirt. Just recently I have started moving the pot to a dry Tupperware to drain. I hope this helps. Thanks for your help.

 

[Gustavo Martins]

It's probably too wet and damp which may be causing root rot. I'd suggest repotting into a free-draining substrate (leave 'dirt' alone) as soon as possible. Also consider putting it outside when wheather warms up a bit. This will boost its health.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

This is going to be hard on you, but it's better to have this in the past than to keep mopping up.
That soil is plain wrong, it looks packed, it has little to no aeration, it holds water for too long.
What you'd want is a coarse medium, something rocky (there's entire debates about it, google around a little because asking it on forums tends to yield equally contradicting results). Go with something that people have been using for a while with good results. This doesn't mean it has to be expensive or super special, it just has to be better than potting soil. In small pots like ours, potting soil is poison with just a few exceptions. Basically every (true!) bonsai soil would do, at least, that's what I read about elms.

The foliage balling up is most likely due to water issues combined with excess nitrogen. Switching to bonsai soil would fix those issues in a single go, but it does mean that at some point, you'll need to fertilize. Don't do that until the tree shows it needs it. But first things first, start with a better soil. In two months, start thinking about the next step to full recovery, depending on it's state.

People are going to tell you that bonsai is an outdoor sport. It is. I can't do anything about that. You could do it indoors, but that's an entire different branch of keeping plants. Most bonsaiists don't do it a lot, because it's actually harder than it looks and it takes constant monitoring and adjustments. Outdoors is pretty much the opposite.

 

[WesB]

Boons Mix is on sale at SuperFly Bonsai. Amazon also has it. Spend the 10-15 dollars on soil now and you’ll get 2-3 years out of just this 1 re-potting before it has broken down enough to be changed again.

 

[bwaynef]

Soil is a big issue, but once you've got that sorted, you need to look into how to secure the tree into the pot so that you don't have to keep repotting it. Here's one of the best resources I've seen on the topic: https://bonsaitonight.com/2016/12/27/secure-bonsai-pot/

 

[rockm]

First, the foundation of your problem is trying to keep this indoors. It multiplies the soil and watering issues that are killing the tree.

As pointed out, the soil is compacted. It holds a lot of water, probably resulting in dead roots (too dry and too wet roots produce the same withered foliage--roots can't supply water to the top, roots rotted from too much water fail just as roots dried out from not enough water do).

By bottom watering, I assume you mean submersion watering, dunking the pot into a tub of water--This method soaks the root mass through each time you do it. Do it more than once a week and you keep the interior of the root mass sopping wet. combined with clogged soil, that's a recipe for root death.

My suggestion is to pull the tree out of the pot, rinse the soil out of the root ball (ALL of the soil) cut the roots back to living tissue, remove grey and black roots too. Repot into decent bonsai soil. Water ONLY WHEN THE TREE NEEDS IT. That last part is hard to learn, and is probably the biggest cause of dead bonsai. After repot, water once thoroughly FROM THE TOP, until water runs through cleanly. Then let the tree alone for a couple of days. let the soil dry down so it's a bit dry to the touch on the surface. Water again FROM THE SURFACE. Repeat.

Get the tree outside once the danger of frost has passed...

 

[WesB]

Comes in different sized bags


https://www.amazon.com/Boon-Bonsai-Soil-Mix-Inorganic/dp/B0762XY4BB

 

[River's Edge]

okay. Here is the additional information.
I live in Utah so winters are cold and summers are hot and dry. I have kept my bonsai in side for its whole life. I keep it next to a window and it gets about 6-9 hours of sunlight. I used this potting mix from Home Depot mixed with my out side dirt and the dirt in came in. The way I water is a Tupperware that the pot sits in. I fill up the Tupperware with just enough water to moisten the dirt. Just recently I have started moving the pot to a dry Tupperware to drain. I hope this helps. Thanks for your help.

By now you will have received information overload and mixed opinion. The state of Utah has at least seven major climatic zones plus microclimates.
The key factor i believe in your situation is the water retention of the soil mix you have chosen combined with your method of watering.
The soil components you choose should allow free drainage but retain enough moisture for the species. Elms like to be moist but not wet continuously. A wide variety of soil components can work well for elm. A simple but effective one is perlite and fir bark. Another might be pumice and fir bark. I use a mixture of Akadama, Pumice, Lava and granite grit.
I would suggest you contact a local bonsai club and get some help to repot the tree in a better mix from locally available materials.
In the meantime allow the soil to dry out more between watering but not completely.

 

[Anhosustali]

I love all this information, its way more than I ever thought I would get. I have some questions though. The only experience I have with trees; are the landscaping jobs I have worked, my tree pruning business, and my work to diagnose and save local schools dying trees. Now, all these examples are normal sized trees, and honestly I thought that bonsai would be kind of a splash between indoor plants and trees. I planted my tree in this way, like how I would plant a tree outside. So I am gathering you don't want any dirt. I want a lot more coarse dirt( I imagine you use pumice because it holds water ). So if I buy the potting soil wesB suggested, I don't want to mix any other materials with it? If I water with this mix I should water from the top and let it drain through, or bottom water it but make sure it drains well? Also, should I keep my tree out all year even though I am in Utah? Thank yall for the help.

 

[River's Edge]

I love all this information, its way more than I ever thought I would get. I have some questions though. The only experience I have with trees; are the landscaping jobs I have worked, my tree pruning business, and my work to diagnose and save local schools dying trees. Now, all these examples are normal sized trees, and honestly I thought that bonsai would be kind of a splash between indoor plants and trees. I planted my tree in this way, like how I would plant a tree outside. So I am gathering you don't want any dirt. I want a lot more coarse dirt( I imagine you use pumice because it holds water ). So if I buy the potting soil wesB suggested, I don't want to mix any other materials with it? If I water with this mix I should water from the top and let it drain through, or bottom water it but make sure it drains well? Also, should I keep my tree out all year even though I am in Utah? Thank yall for the help.

The difference is that trees in pots require different substrate in order to provide proper growing conditions for the roots. Containers create a substantial difference in the environment. Basically you are trying to create optimal root growth by providing a free draining substrate that retains enough moisture as well as has sufficient pore space for oxygen. Some of the components can be organic if the other conditions are met. The best way i have been able to relay it to those in the nursery or landscape trade is that the shape, size and type of pots for Bonsai create different conditions than in the ground or in typical tall narrow nursery pots.
What you want is particle size and shape that allows for moisture retention and air space. A good size to aim for in most cases is 3/16 to 1/4 inch, irregular shape, and retains structure for the length of time needed between repotting. Avoid material that is very fine or very coarse. Better to have similar size in components. Read the soil articles in the resource section of this forum.

 

[WesB]

I love all this information, its way more than I ever thought I would get. I have some questions though. The only experience I have with trees; are the landscaping jobs I have worked, my tree pruning business, and my work to diagnose and save local schools dying trees. Now, all these examples are normal sized trees, and honestly I thought that bonsai would be kind of a splash between indoor plants and trees. I planted my tree in this way, like how I would plant a tree outside. So I am gathering you don't want any dirt. I want a lot more coarse dirt( I imagine you use pumice because it holds water ). So if I buy the potting soil wesB suggested, I don't want to mix any other materials with it? If I water with this mix I should water from the top and let it drain through, or bottom water it but make sure it drains well? Also, should I keep my tree out all year even though I am in Utah? Thank yall for the help.

You can add a little gardening charcoal to the mix if you want and add some organic fertilizer on top. The Boons Mix is pretty much plug and play straight from the bag. Also having moss on top is great for many reasons like preventing splashing, just don't let it get so thick that it stops the peculation process when you water. Submerging to water and all that jazz that goes along with it is whack, just top water when the soil is about to dry and get it over with, you could be watching TV instead of watering.

 

[WesB]

Here is a good intro to what happens in a poor bonsai soil situation. It gets brought up and explained a few time throughout the stream. There's a lot of little gems in there good to hear too, like never fertilizing a sick tree and why for example... .

 

[rockm]

I love all this information, its way more than I ever thought I would get. I have some questions though. The only experience I have with trees; are the landscaping jobs I have worked, my tree pruning business, and my work to diagnose and save local schools dying trees. Now, all these examples are normal sized trees, and honestly I thought that bonsai would be kind of a splash between indoor plants and trees. I planted my tree in this way, like how I would plant a tree outside. So I am gathering you don't want any dirt. I want a lot more coarse dirt( I imagine you use pumice because it holds water ). So if I buy the potting soil wesB suggested, I don't want to mix any other materials with it? If I water with this mix I should water from the top and let it drain through, or bottom water it but make sure it drains well? Also, should I keep my tree out all year even though I am in Utah? Thank yall for the help.

Bonsai are not planted in "dirt." They are planted in what beginners would probably perceive as mostly gravel--Bonsai soil looks like that--fast draining, sharp particles that are porous to absorb water and release it over a period of time. Potting soil is far too fine to use in bonsai containers as it is designed to retain water for indoor tropical plants.

"Coarse dirt" is no good as it will break down into finer particles, probably mud, in anywhere from the first watering to a month later.

You need to use a prepared bagged bonsai soil. Search on the net. you can get a decent gallon of it for not a lot. Post what you find here and we can help you determine if what you've found fits the bill...

 

[Gustavo Martins]

You have plenty information regarding soil. Regarding location, outside is always better but I don’t know Utah climate. You should ask locals. If freezing cold you probably need some kind of protection. Where I am, all my trees, Tropical included, remain outside throughtOut the year. But my climate is probably very different from yours.

 

[Nanuk]

Change out that soil first.
If you are going to keep it inside then I would at least invest in some kind of extra lighting.
As others have said this tree needs a good bit of light.

And please do whatever is needed to keep it from being knocked out of the pot.

 

[Anhosustali]

Bonsai are not planted in "dirt." They are planted in what beginners would probably perceive as mostly gravel--Bonsai soil looks like that--fast draining, sharp particles that are porous to absorb water and release it over a period of time. Potting soil is far too fine to use in bonsai containers as it is designed to retain water for indoor tropical plants.

"Coarse dirt" is no good as it will break down into finer particles, probably mud, in anywhere from the first watering to a month later.

You need to use a prepared bagged bonsai soil. Search on the net. you can get a decent gallon of it for not a lot. Post what you find here and we can help you determine if what you've found fits the bill...

I am planning on buying this soil. How does it look? Does gardening soil work on top; like WesB said?

 

[M. Frary]

Quit shooting it with nerf missles.
Every time you knock it over and need to replant or repot you lose fine feeder roots.
That and being inside,I'm surprised it grows any kind of foliage.

 

[River's Edge]

I am planning on buying this soil. How does it look? Does gardening soil work on top; like WesB said?

Why would you begin to use the appropriate material and then prevent it from working properly by covering it with dirt? Did you read the resource material on soil components? I think your last statement answers the question.