Can we talk Hop Hornbeam

[bray]

I have a couple of hop hornbeam I dug from my property in spring of 2023. That spring they started out growing very well with lots of extensions. One began to show a bunch of leaf galls but still had pretty good growth. I did spray for bugs that I never saw. The other started to slow after the spring push and began to show signs of maybe a fungal infection. I sprayed with neem. I never got much more growth but did start seeing buds developing for the next year so I didn't worry too much just thought I lost a year in development. This year both got some leaves in the spring but I wouldn't say a strong growth. As the heat came on they both looked like a fungal again. I tried neem and then 1 week ago I used a copper-based fungicide on both. One tree's leaves were all brown yesterday but the new developed buds seem to be losing color also and the other dropped a few leaves I think but the buds look OK.
I have gotten the stuff to do the winter time dormant spraying for fungus and bugs this winter so maybe if they make it to next spring they will thrive. The material is not great (but could look nice if developed) so no great loss if these don't make it. I have plenty of more where these came from in my woods that I can collect to replace these. But i need to figure out how to make them thrive cause the ones here all seem to have leaf coloring of a slight fungal infection.

So, for those of you who have hop hornbeam, do these trees get fungal infection easily? What sprays have you found to work? Any suggestions for helping me figure out how to grow these trees?

 

[coltranem]

I am glad you started this thread. I have one I purchased from Andy Smith (golden arrow bonsai) in spring of 2022. I did a work shop with Andrew Robson in May of 2022. Since then have been pinching and pruning to direct growth.

In my area I have not found it too fussy and grows pretty strongly. It gets maybe 6 hours of direct sun tops but could probably do move that is just where I have it.

This is a picture from last fall.

 

[Gabler]

I have a couple of hop hornbeam I dug from my property in spring of 2023. That spring they started out growing very well with lots of extensions. One began to show a bunch of leaf galls but still had pretty good growth. I did spray for bugs that I never saw. The other started to slow after the spring push and began to show signs of maybe a fungal infection. I sprayed with neem. I never got much more growth but did start seeing buds developing for the next year so I didn't worry too much just thought I lost a year in development. This year both got some leaves in the spring but I wouldn't say a strong growth. As the heat came on they both looked like a fungal again. I tried neem and then 1 week ago I used a copper-based fungicide on both. One tree's leaves were all brown yesterday but the new developed buds seem to be losing color also and the other dropped a few leaves I think but the buds look OK.
I have gotten the stuff to do the winter time dormant spraying for fungus and bugs this winter so maybe if they make it to next spring they will thrive. The material is not great (but could look nice if developed) so no great loss if these don't make it. I have plenty of more where these came from in my woods that I can collect to replace these. But i need to figure out how to make them thrive cause the ones here all seem to have leaf coloring of a slight fungal infection.

So, for those of you who have hop hornbeam, do these trees get fungal infection easily? What sprays have you found to work? Any suggestions for helping me figure out how to grow these trees?

Pictures?

 

[bray]

This is a picture from last fall.

Nice base to begin your tree with.
I wonder if the stronger growth I saw the first year was from stored energy in the tree and I have yet to develop strong roots. Are these trees slow to develop roots?
One of my trees is in pretty much full sun all day the other got full sun till about noon. The one in full sun seems healthier than the other. The shaded one may not make it since the last of the leaves browned out this week, it still has buds on it but they are not as green as they should be. My property has tons of these trees ~6' to waist high growing in the understory (so not alot of sun) but none of them are very full of foliage either. Haven't really seen any bigger trees but they must be there somewhere.
I also think I may have used too large of a pot for these trees taking into account the amount of roots they had when they were potted. Soil was mostly DE with a small amount of potting soil and bark chips. Soil seems to dry at the same rate as my other trees.
My plan for going forward is:
1- winter/dormant spray routine
2- repot in the spring into a smaller container with maybe a drier mix going as easy on the roots as I can (root inspection may tell me something)
If anyone has any other suggestions, I would be happy to hear them.

 

[coltranem]

DE, potting soil, and bark are fairly moisture retention materials with and oversized pot they could be staying too wet. Do you have pictures?

My property has tons of these trees ~6' to waist high growing in the understory (so not alot of sun) but none of them are very full of foliage either. Haven't really seen any bigger trees but they must be there somewhere.

What is the typical girth on these?

 

[bray]

The soil seemed to always feel dry but the soil surface of the pot for the tree that is in the worse shape has turned darker than other pots in my garden except one. Maybe I wasn't feeling deep enough into the soil. The potting soil bark is a small amount in the mix and doesn't seem to bother my other trees (all my trees are the development stage). I have two trees that are in this soil and also the same style pot that have this darker color to the soil surface neither growing well. The pot is round with rounded edges that goes down to a bottom that is about 1/2 the diameter of the top, maybe it's acting like a funnel and holding too much moisture in the bottom of the pot. Just a thought.
The other hawthorn is in a colander sitting in a raised bed and soil surface looks good and the tree looks better too (not good but better).
I did get some pics and will post them soon.

What is the typical girth on these?

Most are in the 1" to 1 1/2" range. I have found a couple in the 3" range also.

 

[bray]

Tree 1 is in better condition just not thriving Picture is of the upper end of the tree to see the leaves. Lower portion of the tree has lost most of it's leaves but does have some buds.
Tree 2 is closer to death

Question, if my issue with tree 2 is the shape of the pot holding too much water in the bottom what do you think about throwing tree 2 in a larger pot without touching the roots? It may allow the lower rootball to dry out.

 

[coltranem]

It is hard to tell from the pictures whether the pot is causing issues. However the soil on the second tree looks wet.

 

[bray]

However the soil on the second tree looks wet.

Yes, it is really wet right now, we've had rain 5 of the last 7 days. It normally doesn't look that bad but the DE has a sort of green tint to it, even when dryer.
Should I be thinking of a soil drench for the roots? Or just wait to get in better soil in the spring if it's still alive?

 

[coltranem]

I have no experience with soil drenched. I'd try to minimize the water they are exposed too.

 

[bray]

The pot is round with rounded edges that goes down to a bottom that is about 1/2 the diameter of the top, maybe it's acting like a funnel and holding too much moisture in the bottom of the pot.

I thought about this some more and I seem to remember having issues with this style of pot years ago. Tree would grow well for a time then start to decline. Instead of lifting the trees from the pots but to try to address them holding too much water I drilled a S_ load of holes in the bottom and lower edges of the pot. If the bottom of the rootball is staying too wet maybe that will help them to dry some till a spring repot can be done. Wish me luck.

Looking at the picture above for "tree 1 leaves", outside of the insect bites, any thoughts on if there is a fungal infection in this tree?