TheSteve
Chumono
I mean, CANADA's got great stuff. LOL Alas, Paul, most of the world already knows. Just ask Walter Pall.
California junipers for sale
- Thread starter Smoke
- Start date
I mean, CANADA's got great stuff. LOL Alas, Paul, most of the world already knows. Just ask Walter Pall.
Mojosan
Mame
It appears from looking at that website, that there are NOT any Cal. Junis for sale. Under "available for sale" it says "0".
oops
oops
daniel
Mame
Yep, I called them earlier today and that's what they said. They also said they generally sell them before they are "ready," and therefore they don't get to ship any out to out of area customers.
Poop.
Daniel
Dwight
Chumono
Believe it or not there are Rocky Mountain Junies in West Texas along with Alligator junipers and One-seed Junipers. All have been used as bonsai
But back to the nursery , Cal junies and most native junipers really don't seem to be good for bonsai unless they are yamadori. Nursery grown plants are often way too small ( years down the road ) or have been pruned and trained as landscape plants. There used to be a place in Alburquerque or Santa Fe that had nursery raised RMJs and they looked like hollywoods
An exception seems to be blue rug juni which grows almost anywhere but is natine to the NE US. I've found some i9n five gal pots that would make nice cascades or small bonsai.
But back to the nursery , Cal junies and most native junipers really don't seem to be good for bonsai unless they are yamadori. Nursery grown plants are often way too small ( years down the road ) or have been pruned and trained as landscape plants. There used to be a place in Alburquerque or Santa Fe that had nursery raised RMJs and they looked like hollywoods
An exception seems to be blue rug juni which grows almost anywhere but is natine to the NE US. I've found some i9n five gal pots that would make nice cascades or small bonsai.
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rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Oh you Californians...
"Probably considered to be the U.S.' best material for bonsai."
Nah. Only by you Californians
The rest of us here in flyover country know that there are many species that fill the bill. They've just been overshadowed by the Cal. Juniper hype fostered by Walter Pall and his cohorts. They're fashionable particularly among the "rugged mountain" types
If all you Cal. Juniper acolytes got out more, you'd know that there are dozens of species (conifer and deciduous) that probably equal Cal. Juniper, perhaps even best it. By the way, Cal. Juniper does extremely poorly outside it's native arid climate. They die bit by bit here in the east--can't take the humidity. None of the long time bonsaists I know wants one--or wants another one
Off the top of my head, here in the east, extremely viable (and more than noteworthy) bonsai species include live oak (Quercus Virginiana), cedar elm, American elm, bald cypress, water elm, blueberry, common juniper, black cherry, wild wisteria (The North American species, as well as naturalized wild Chinese species)...There are others species that are being pioneered too--tupelo (any number of species), hawthorn (literally dozens of species there too), hackberry, etc.
Fortunately for us here in North America, we've only begun to scratch the surface of what can be viable bonsai species.
"Probably considered to be the U.S.' best material for bonsai."
Nah. Only by you Californians
The rest of us here in flyover country know that there are many species that fill the bill. They've just been overshadowed by the Cal. Juniper hype fostered by Walter Pall and his cohorts. They're fashionable particularly among the "rugged mountain" types If all you Cal. Juniper acolytes got out more
, you'd know that there are dozens of species (conifer and deciduous) that probably equal Cal. Juniper, perhaps even best it. By the way, Cal. Juniper does extremely poorly outside it's native arid climate. They die bit by bit here in the east--can't take the humidity. None of the long time bonsaists I know wants one--or wants another one Off the top of my head, here in the east, extremely viable (and more than noteworthy) bonsai species include live oak (Quercus Virginiana), cedar elm, American elm, bald cypress, water elm, blueberry, common juniper, black cherry, wild wisteria (The North American species, as well as naturalized wild Chinese species)...There are others species that are being pioneered too--tupelo (any number of species), hawthorn (literally dozens of species there too), hackberry, etc.
Fortunately for us here in North America, we've only begun to scratch the surface of what can be viable bonsai species.
There is nothing natural looking about Japanese bonsai , that's why I like them. D trees on the other hand look like their mothers and fathers in a toddler fashion, rules apply. Japanese break all of natures rules. You will never find one tree in nature that look like any of my trees.The same applies to American conifers. American D trees, a different story, rules apply. I'll quit here before this becomes a rant.This subject will be argued until the end of time.
Ciao,
Harry
Ciao,
Harry
Attila Soos
Omono
The most appealing about the collected California junipers is that they are centuries old (two-, three-, even five hundred year-old trees), and therefore, they have a tremendous character. Nursery-grown California junipers are just as useless as any other nursery juniper, there is nothing special about them.
The second best thing about California juniper is that you can't grow them anywhere else, except California (and the South West). So, people from outside would always dream about them (of course they would never admit it), but they can never have one.
So, they are the teasers of the bonsai world.
Having under your care a top-notch California juniper bonsai that is many centuries old, is the ultimate bonsai experience. One cannot ask for more. The age, the character, the history, the aesthetic satisfaction, it's everything that a bonsaist strives for. There is only one thing that you still need, if you already have a California juniper: you still need a nice deciduous/flowering bonsai, such as a maple. Something that shows the change of seasons, in order to offset the rugged and timeless nature of the California juniper.
The second best thing about California juniper is that you can't grow them anywhere else, except California (and the South West). So, people from outside would always dream about them (of course they would never admit it), but they can never have one.
So, they are the teasers of the bonsai world.Having under your care a top-notch California juniper bonsai that is many centuries old, is the ultimate bonsai experience. One cannot ask for more. The age, the character, the history, the aesthetic satisfaction, it's everything that a bonsaist strives for. There is only one thing that you still need, if you already have a California juniper: you still need a nice deciduous/flowering bonsai, such as a maple. Something that shows the change of seasons, in order to offset the rugged and timeless nature of the California juniper.
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The most appealing about the collected California junipers is that they are centuries old (two-, three-, even five hundred year-old trees), and therefore, they have a tremendous character. Nursery-grown California junipers are just as useless as any other nursery juniper, there is nothing special about them.
The second best thing about California juniper is that you can't grow them anywhere else, except California. So, people from outside would always dream about them, but they can never have one.
Grafted ones seem to do ok.
Ciao,
Harry
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
"So, people from outside would always dream about them (of course they would never admit it), but they can never have one. So, they are the teasers of the bonsai world."
Note to self:
see therapist about juniper envy and denial issues...oh, and I am NOT a tease, ask my wife
Note to self:
see therapist about juniper envy and denial issues...oh, and I am NOT a tease, ask my wife
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Attila Soos
Omono
"So, people from outside would always dream about them (of course they would never admit it), but they can never have one. So, they are the teasers of the bonsai world."
Note to self:
see therapist about juniper envy and denial issues...
Thanks for the laugh..
Attila Soos
Omono
The grafted ones are a really strange case. I am glad to hear that they are doing well, but I hope this applies to the long-term, and not just for 3-to-5 years.
But it makes sense, since the foliage is the one that is adapted to dry, desert air. If you change the foliage, there is no reason not to do well in other areas. All the roots need, is instant drainage, otherwise they are adapted to extreme temperatures, hot and cold. During winter, they are often covered with snow for months.
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rockm
Spuds Moyogi
"If you change the foliage, there is no reason not to do well in other areas."
If you change the foliage, they're not really Cal. Junipers...
If you change the foliage, they're not really Cal. Junipers...
Attila Soos
Omono
Well, that's the question: what are they?
Is it the foliage, or the trunk/root that defines a species?
(PS.: in case of a grafted Shimpaku, both the foliage and the fruits/flowers will be shimpaku, so the treee is probably much more shimpaku jun. than Cal. jun. - I answered my own question)
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rockm
Spuds Moyogi
It's not really hard to answer if you use other grafts as a guide. Is an Arakawa Japanese maple an Arakawa or a regular old run-of-the-mill Japanese maple because it's grafted onto run-of-the-mill JM stock?
No, it's an Arakawa...
That means if you're grafting Shimpaku onto Cal. Juniper trunks, you're turning the native plant into a shimpaku, basically using the Cal. Juniper only as the skeleton...
So, Cal. Juniper is not being used because it's excellent bonsai material, but rather excellent tanuki wood...
I await the death threats
No, it's an Arakawa...
That means if you're grafting Shimpaku onto Cal. Juniper trunks, you're turning the native plant into a shimpaku, basically using the Cal. Juniper only as the skeleton...
So, Cal. Juniper is not being used because it's excellent bonsai material, but rather excellent tanuki wood...
I await the death threats
Bill S
Masterpiece
Baaaahhaaaaaaa - Tanuki Wood - Now that there was funny .
Attila Soos
Omono
So, Cal. Juniper is not being used because it's excellent bonsai material, but rather excellent tanuki wood...
I await the death threats
Well, ANY material can be used for tanuki, so California juniper is no different from any other material in the world, in this regard. ANY good material is excellent tanuki wood. This is not a drawback, but a compliment to the quality of the trunk.
But most of the bonsaists here in California are perfectly happy with the original foliage, so no need to graft. Grafting is usually done just for fun, to have something different from the usual....or for business reasons, to be able to sell the tree to areas outside of California. Of course, there is always the Japanofile purist, who believes that the only good foliage in the world is the Shimpaku. Kimura is one of them, he told me that the Shimpaku is superior to everything. He forgot to recognize that this is entirely subjective. Some people only eat chicken, never touch pork. I like both.
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Dwight
Chumono
I gots a question. The Mohave is a very hostile environment. So it makes sense to assume that the Junies from the Mojave are adapted to this environment. Now I hear that Cal Junies won't do well outside California. But California is not just the mohave. The LA basin is not nearly as dry and doesn't have anywhere near the temp extremes as the Mohave. Same is true of the Bay Area and all along the coast.I don't know if there are bonsaiest in the Mojave itself but I suspect that Cal Junies will do well in most areas of the US that are desert or semi desert , i.e. most of the western states. I wouldn't be suprised if a true Cal Junie was very unhappy in Seattle but how about Tuscon ? or Phoenix or Vegas or Salt Lale or Albuquerque or even here in El Paso ?
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Smoke
Ignore-Amus
In my run ins with people that have had experience with California junipers out side California is that east of the Mississippi they do poorly. I have heard that they die slow deaths at the National Arboretum but do OK in the New England areas. A friend of mine moved to Oklahoma about 5 years ago and he took 17 with him. They all died within two years. He was very good with them so they were not mistreated.
Many have been exported to Japan and they die there by the hundreds. I have seen pictures of bone piles of C. juniper in Japan.
It's an enigma.
al
Many have been exported to Japan and they die there by the hundreds. I have seen pictures of bone piles of C. juniper in Japan.
It's an enigma.
al
