sorce
Nonsense Rascal
These were the results from 2015.
Curious if 5 years has changed the opinion.
Sorce
Curious if 5 years has changed the opinion.
Sorce
Bonsai Without Chemicals? 2020.
- Thread starter sorce
- Start date
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
Define chemicals please!
Because while I try to stick with the natural approach, I still use copper wire, iron scissors, plastic pots, synthetic auxins, and so on.
Pyrethrins can be found in nature, but also in bottles.
I grow microbes that produce more aggressive antibiotics than I can find in consumer stores.
I think many people are dealing with the same semantic conflict in one way or another.
Because while I try to stick with the natural approach, I still use copper wire, iron scissors, plastic pots, synthetic auxins, and so on.
Pyrethrins can be found in nature, but also in bottles.
I grow microbes that produce more aggressive antibiotics than I can find in consumer stores.
I think many people are dealing with the same semantic conflict in one way or another.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Since none of this was defined before, I believe personal definition is acceptable.
Sorce
Sorce
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
40 years, no cides.
Rodale.
Do have leaf cutters and grasshoppers, especially with
the excessive Sahara dust. Birds handling them.
No bird problems - trees and soil are not a source of food.
African snails are being handled by our normal spray for
the house walls [ for mosquitoes and roaches ]
Good Day
Anthony
Rodale.
Do have leaf cutters and grasshoppers, especially with
the excessive Sahara dust. Birds handling them.
No bird problems - trees and soil are not a source of food.
African snails are being handled by our normal spray for
the house walls [ for mosquitoes and roaches ]
Good Day
Anthony
JoeR
Masterpiece
Right. For example, If I'm not mistaken, Mr. Valavanis said in that thread that he actually does use 'chemicals' but confined to organics like neem oil and so forth.
JoeR
Masterpiece
if there were a way for me to not have to use them, I wouldnt- doesnt seem possible here
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
Let me get this straight: You spray for bugs bad for your health and hygiene, but the trees are left to fend for themselves? I have no problem with your decisions which are yours alone to make, but for you to then report that you don't use ~~chemicals~~ on your trees is virtue signaling in the absence of any real virtue.
For the record, Chemical: noun: chemical; plural noun: chemicals; a compound or substance that has been purified or prepared, especially artificially.
From mouthwash in the morning, chlorine bleach for your whites, gas for your car, vinegar on your salad, vodka to cleanse your olive and Freon® making ice and cooling your home, we live the life we do because of chemicals. Not in-spite of them. Not without them. The same disingenuous people shaming chemicals are the same people touting the new meat analogue, ~fake meat. Yes, replace natural meat with chemically processed stuff and berate chemicals in the same mouthful.
Please forgive me, but somebody needs to police the history of human progress.
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
@Forsoothe! ,
our trees are strong and healthy.
Mosquitoes need blood and roaches need food.
Hello Flowtron.
Vinegar for salads is not supposed to be acetic acid.
Perhaps wine or apple cider.
We use sunlight to bleach whites.
No airconditioners needed here, but yes a fridge.
Do the best we can to keep harmony.
Good Day
Anthony
our trees are strong and healthy.
Mosquitoes need blood and roaches need food.
Hello Flowtron.
Vinegar for salads is not supposed to be acetic acid.
Perhaps wine or apple cider.
We use sunlight to bleach whites.
No airconditioners needed here, but yes a fridge.
Do the best we can to keep harmony.
Good Day
Anthony
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Unfortunately, there is really no where to go and live safely in this world without "society's effect".
Trust me, I've looked.
So we must live in Society.
We should do it as responsibly as possible.
For life, Ok.
For Hobbies, Not worth it.
I believe Anthony has a sound thinking.
Sorce
JoeR
Masterpiece
Not sure what the definition of chemical was added for...
I believe alot of the stigma around chemicals results from a generally lacking understanding of basic chemistry in addition to the severely faulted pharmaceutical and pesticide industry in America. This is then furthered by the innumerable side effects that are continuing to ramify from products like Monsanto. More and more I am reading that GMOs and the 'revolutionary' advancements of the 70s-00s are not so bullet proof as once thought, and more research is going into the development of holistic approaches. Things like encouraging symbiotic fungi that enhance nutrient uptake and increase the ability of crops to tolerate hot conditions. This I believe is where the future of crops may lie.
Whats so wrong with a chemical free approach? I believe Anthony's point was that a healthy tree does not need any chemical intervention. If youre continuously spraying something on your trees, there are deeper problems to resolve. And the less isolated 'chemicals' we add to our waterways, the better imo...
PA_Penjing
Chumono
Still clinging to my last bottle of liquid copper. But tossing out "trouble trees" has been a game changer.
A. Gorilla
Omono
Nobody is going to mourn the loss of my garbage. At a private hobby level, I'm keeping stuff around which doesn't need heroic medical intervention.
I'll scrape off aphids with my fingers. Thats about it.
Species are limited, but so is my space. I aim for that equilibrium.
I'll scrape off aphids with my fingers. Thats about it.
Species are limited, but so is my space. I aim for that equilibrium.
JoeR
Masterpiece
To go along with this, something else growers should consider is only growing natives or trees found in similar zones. Or else you will be fighting nature constantly.
I however have half natives and half exotics, so easier said than done...
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
Defining terms makes it easier to stay on topic. Defenders of chemicals use them when they must, just exactly like those that have a chemical free approach. When your back is against the wall, you will use them or choose to lose a plant. No difference. Well, there is one difference; virtue signaling.
Pests evolve. They always have and it's fallacious thinking that the universe is at the end of evolution and a GMO or a pesticide that works today will work forever. ..."Things like encouraging symbiotic fungi that enhance nutrient uptake and increase the ability of crops to tolerate hot conditions." This will work until the creatures involved evolve, whereupon you have to evolve the symbiotic fungi again. No?
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
The inverse is true. Only growing locals is growing things that have an ample supply of pests & pathogens nearby. My figs don't have many natural enemies here. Scientists found that trees in the South American jungles had fewer problems when there were more species in a given forest. The logic is simple: when there are lots of a single species available close to each other the pests can locate new hosts easier than if the next host is a mile away.
JoeR
Masterpiece
I was waiting for someone to comment on that. Yes, there are plenty of pests that feast on native trees. How many of which are specific to local species? How many invasive pests from exotic lands are present? These all play into this idea.
There are numerous natives that are almost disease free to be taken advantage of. A. Hornbean, bald cypress, paw paw, dogwood, and others for example aquire infections very rarely in my area. But others like ginkgo have also proven resistant to almost everything, never had any issues with one.
Anthracnose has been my number one nuisance. This disease is not specific by any means, but strong growing natives have been less susceptible to it. Most heavily infected in my garden are: Japanese maple, trident maple, and japanese quince.
Japanese beetles are the second worst pest here. These enjoy feasting on JM, zelkova, and prunus, mainly. Anything with delicate leaves are the first to go.
So no, the inverse is not true. There are pros and cons to each. My point was that attempting to grow trees outside of native ranges, or on the extremes of their tolerable ranges, will lead to a difficult time.
JoeR
Masterpiece
Sure, if youre talking about using the fungi for pest prevention purposes. I mentioned that it makes them more heat resistant, which is for a totally different application.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Do you know?
There is evidence that the Amazon Rain Forest is "man-made".
The soil, a product of man.
Just saying.
That old shit is that good shit.
Old old.
Always been.
Enter Aquarius Please.
Odd in the age of Pisces, our greatest concern is the fish. Evil has definitely manifested in this age.
Sorce
There is evidence that the Amazon Rain Forest is "man-made".
The soil, a product of man.
Just saying.
That old shit is that good shit.
Old old.
Always been.
Enter Aquarius Please.
Odd in the age of Pisces, our greatest concern is the fish. Evil has definitely manifested in this age.
Sorce
JoeR
Masterpiece
Man made as in say ancient farm land? Haven't seen that, interesting.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
The clear cutting has revealed ancient civilizations and this information is coming to light.
Sorce
