Bonsai Focus "Reminder"

[Tachigi]

Sure, rude is rude, and nobody likes it. I can't stand rude people.

The problem is, in this particular case, nobody from Bonsai Focus was rude. Some people here perceived the person to be rude, but I didn't. The person provided a plain and direct explanation, with no attempt to appear "polite". Straight, to the subject, without the usual polite expressions that we are used to.

You need to understand that your perception of "rudeness" can be different from others. Sure, if someone slaps you in the face, or pushes you, that means rude in every culture. But if a store clerk looks straight at you while serving you, without any attempt of smiling, that may appear rude to you, but it perfectly "normal" for others. If they speak to you louder than you are used to, that may appear rude to you, but not for them.

What I said was that I don't expect BF to do for me anything beyond the bare minimum of communication, necessary for them to run their business. This doesn't mean that I would tolerate if they called me names, but they didn't do that, did they?

So, you are saying that rudeness should not be tolerated, and I am saying that nobody was rude here, no reason to bend out of shape.

Attila my friend, you and I must be reading two different posts from BF. The statement issued WAS a bold slap in the face ...

 

[JasonG]

Yes I think it's like 5 subscriptions from your page before you start to see any money...or something like that...thanks for correcting me, we all know that that was a really really really really important issue to be corrected on. The discussion would just be a total waste of time if some one hadn't corrected me on this

OK Jason...you win...I forgot that it comes down to how the two entities feel about eachother that really counts Seriously though, you're picking at straws now just to defend your point...and I'm not the only one that sees through it.

Hey Ryan,

Its ok, no winners here..... you and I will always disagree on most things. It has been that way since you started coming here and I am sure it will continue. Religion, politics, business policies, etc... we will just see things different than one another. Heck, I bet we would even disagree on what is a good tree or not, lol!!!

No worries on my end......

Jason

 

[Yamadori]

Jesus did say turn the other cheek but even in the bible there is nothing that states you should get "Jap slapped" (sorry for the metaphor)

Rudeness is just plain rude
IMO it doesn't matter which cultures does what, rude is rude as defined in the dictionary.

Rick, I really kinda think that, "Jap slapped" term is rude. The "(sorry for the metaphor)" does not excuse the choice of words. In fact, it shows that you knew it is offensive but wanted to use it anyway.

Dictionary.com
1. discourteous or impolite, esp. in a deliberate way: a rude reply.
2. without culture, learning, or refinement: rude, illiterate peasants.
3. rough in manners or behavior; unmannerly; uncouth.

Historic origins of "jap slap" is rooted in the attack on Pearl Harbour.
From the site http://members.tripod.com/runker_room/tiestalk/racism.htm
"I would start off by assuming the person was completely unaware that the word is as offensive to people of Japanese descent as the "n-word" is to black people. But I would feel it was my duty to let the person know that someone noticed, and was willing to challenge such an unfortunate use of language."

I am not japanese but I am certainly offended.

 

[reddog]

Rick, I really kinda think that, "Jap slapped" term is rude. The "(sorry for the metaphor)" does not excuse the choice of words. In fact, it shows that you knew it is offensive but wanted to use it anyway.

Dictionary.com
1. discourteous or impolite, esp. in a deliberate way: a rude reply.
2. without culture, learning, or refinement: rude, illiterate peasants.
3. rough in manners or behavior; unmannerly; uncouth.

Historic origins of "jap slap" is rooted in the attack on Pearl Harbour.
From the site http://members.tripod.com/runker_room/tiestalk/racism.htm
"I would start off by assuming the person was completely unaware that the word is as offensive to people of Japanese descent as the "n-word" is to black people. But I would feel it was my duty to let the person know that someone noticed, and was willing to challenge such an unfortunate use of language."

I am not japanese but I am certainly offended.

Rick,
Your "Jap slapped" phrase was completely inappropriate. Even as a metaphor in this context it is an embarrassment. You should know better.

 

[Anonymous User]

I wonder how many of the "offended" here are actual subscribers to the magazine?



Will

 

[Yamadori]

Just as I do not have to be Japanese to be offended by terms like, "Jap slap", I do not have to be a subscriber of BF to feel it is bad business to disregard customers. I am not necessarily "offended" by BF. I just don't think they are making the wisest choice. It is their perogative and it is their consequence if customers leave. Who knows, it may be a calculated choice.

 

[R_F]

Heck, I bet we would even disagree on what is a good tree or not, lol!!!

I doubt that! (There we go disagreeing again) I have seen your trees and I love'em! They make me jealous

 

[Rick Moquin]

I apologize to the audience for the use of the term and to those I offended, I should have used "slapped repeatedly."

 

[R_F]

I wonder how many of the "offended" here are actual subscribers to the magazine?



Will

Hi Will,

I think this thread started out with a focus on trying to understand a different culture and also express how odd and foreign their method seemed to Americans. I don't think any real offense happened until Walter posted the email from Renee, one of BF's publishers.

I am a subscriber, but I don't think it takes a subscriber to comment on the blatantly arrogant and rude email that was posted here. You would never see that kind of tone from a reputable business in the states. It just wouldn't happen.

Anyway, the email still isn't enough for me to stop my subscription and I doubt it would be for most here on the forum....like Attila said "just give me my damn magazine".... at the end of the day it is a great mag with great content and when it comes to this kind of product I really don't care if thier staff is filled with rude people, as long as I get my mag. BUT if another mag popped up that was a little more well rounded on their content AND had the same quality with a great understanding of the customers they serve....I might be tempted to switch.

 

[Rick Moquin]

Just as I do not have to be Japanese to be offended by terms like, "Jap slap", I do not have to be a subscriber of BF to feel it is bad business to disregard customers. I am not necessarily "offended" by BF. I just don't think they are making the wisest choice. It is their perogative and it is their consequence if customers leave. Who knows, it may be a calculated choice.

You know the saddest part of all this, it is something the collective "we" have allowed to happen.

Anecdote: For years I belonged to the same insurance cie, with the exception of a hiatus in the mid 80's when I was in Ottawa. Rates were good, claims were settled swiftly and courteously etc... Unfortunately the company decide to drop all their small clients to remain with corporate accounts. A disappointment perhaps but, the new daughter and "pop" business they sold us to, served us as well if not better. Then one day the dad and "pop" business" got swallowed up by the sharks (capitalism). IN the run of 10 years I don't know how often the company merge etc... I think 4 or 5 times, each time the service getting worse and worse. Well I went elsewhere to a long established small firm with great people (still with them). I deal with people not entities when talking with my broker and I had mentioned why I was switching he said Rick: << they don't care! As long as more people coming through the door exceeds those leaving, they don't give a damn!>> <<as a matter of fact, you are a liability tot them with a near perfect record.>>

... and that folks is indeed today's society... personally I would rather fight than die on my knees!

 

[Anonymous User]

My Goodness, I have never seen so many high horses in all my life, they must feed them well around these parts.....


Rick,

Perhaps the term B**** Slapped would have been more appropriate?

Noddle tuned? Clock cleaned? Attitude adjusted? Yankee Doodled? Knuckle danced? Tenderized? Detroit face lift? Bruce Lee'd?

...all like a read headed stepchild, I presume?



Will

 

[Rick Moquin]

My Goodness, I have never seen so many high horses in all my life, they must feed them well around these parts.....


Rick,

Perhaps the term B**** Slapped would have been more appropriate?

Noddle tuned? Clock cleaned? Attitude adjusted? Yankee Doodled? Knuckle danced? Tenderized? Detroit face lift? Bruce Lee'd?

...all like a read headed stepchild, I presume?



Will

No, slapped repeatedly would have been. The original term used was inappropriate as it means something different to me than the intended audience. The term was used to convey slapped repeatedly.

... and yes folks at times will look for any morsel to pounce, another sign of our times where most are frustrated, and still wonder why?

 

[Klytus]

I'm contemplating a small article,'Beserker Bonsai-The study of the rage of perfection'.

Wiring in this school is merely a means to an end end,it should be so fiddly that suddenly the Beserker will strike and tear off a branch.

In Beserker Bonsai the wrong tool for the Job is used,again the Beserker will manifest and the Bonsai will suddenly fly towards the nearet unyielding surface.

After the Beserker has subsided one should not be dismayed but instead be elated at the results.

 

[rockm]

Attila,

I can't understand your reasoning that sitting back and accepting this kind of thing is the best option. Without objecting to crap like this, you tacitly endorse it and allow it continue. Say nothing and you get what you mostly don't want. Monopolies tend to get worse as time goes by. They rely on customers getting used to really bad things. AT&T's motto "you can have any color phone you want, as long as it's black" was the rule of the road for 125 years here in the US. Pushed to change, AT&T caved in. How many color phones can you get now?

The biggest thing I can't swallow here is the stubborn, dimwitted arguments from the folks who write for, or are associated with, the publication, against IMPROVING a product. Jeez, you'd think asking for bit more civility--or God forbid--a little thought for their customers-- was akin to asking for some sort of blood sacrifice.

Additionally, I can't really get my head around the rather insulting idea that somehow European vendors are discourteous clods incapable of dealing decently with customers. What a crock of BS.

That hasn't been my experience with any of those that I have dealt with bonsai or otherwise in Europe. Having bought pots from Horst Heinzlereiter and Bryan Albright for many years, I can say that service with a smile and a friendly touch are alive and well in European bonsai circles.

I can also attest that European businesses (especially GERMAN businesses)can be the most responsive to complaints, even more so than American businesses. A case in point---I bought a hugely expensive Henkels

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._A._Henckels

kitchen knife for my parents 40th anniversary a while back. The point broke off of the thing two years later--after my mother used it as a screwdriver. She called the company to see if she could buy a new one without going through a retailer. The company didn't ask her any questions about how she broke it, or tell her to "get a life," question her intelligence or motives, or suggest that she was a coddled American unused to the wider world. They simply asked for her address and sent a brand new knife --same model which had gone up in price--for nothing AND APOLOGIZED that her original had broken. They certainly didn't have to do any of that. It wasn't their fault. My mom has purchased two more knives since. Simple customer-wise business sense, a good product, coupled with German efficiency are pretty formidable.

Sorry, but I have a very hard time believing "rudeness" is a matter of European culture. I think it is mostly a matter of no business sense hiding behind a flimsy excuse for laziness.

 

[rockm]

"I wonder how many of the "offended" here are actual subscribers to the magazine?"

I wonder how many potential subscribers are watching and learning...Count the number of people who have noted their concerns about BF. Then count the number of defenders who are not associated with the magazine...Do the math...

 

[Yamadori]

Not only that, many here have long developed respect for Victrinia. If she is treated rudely we take notice. It does effect my opinion. With state furloughs in effect our houshold budget is tight. I had been considering BF for my B-Day request. I'm not so interested now. I'll look elsewhere for a periodical.

Any reccommendations from the crowd?

 

[mcpesq817]

Not only that, many here have long developed respect for Victrinia. If she is treated rudely we take notice. It does effect my opinion. With state furloughs in effect our houshold budget is tight. I had been considering BF for my B-Day request. I'm not so interested now. I'll look elsewhere for a periodical.

Any reccommendations from the crowd?

I subscribed to the ABS Journal a few months ago and really enjoy it. I may have posted earlier that while it may not have as many pretty photos or slick presentation of Bonsai Focus, I have started to prefer it because it focuses on the US scene (and material available in the US) and with a little more emphasis on actual care of trees. This is not at all meant to be offensive or anything, but with Bonsai Focus, there are only so many demo-type articles of various Italian artists working on collected mugos for me to stay interested in the magazine.

I just signed up for International Bonsai (Valvanis' publication) on the recommendation of a friend. Haven't received any issues yet, but am looking forward to my first issue.

 

[Rick Moquin]

Any recommendations from the crowd?

Yes, your first order of business would have been to acknowledge my "public" apology, since you pointed out my un-deliberate rudeness. Now who is being rude? (rhetorical question).

 

[Yamadori]

I apologize to the audience for the use of the term and to those I offended, I should have used "slapped repeatedly."

Thanks Rick

 

[Rick Moquin]

You are welcome