Bonsai 101 (help!)

[Gary.Indiana]

I’m new to bonsai and growing Japanese Maples.
I attached a few pics from the web to help explain my questions. The pictures are NOT my trees!!
Were the trees in the photos once grown in the ground, perhaps up to 6-8 feet tall, then transferred to their current containers?
If so, did all the root pruning the place at one time?
Or, did it take several years of root pruning to get the root ball small enough to fit and live healthy in the containers shown in the photos?
Is it possible to put a tree w a 1/4” truck in a 1-3 gallon size container and have it grow into a 2”+ trunk, if I keep up w root pruning?
Sorry for all my ridiculous questions!
Thanks for any input.
–G

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Hi Gary, welcome aboard!

so were they field grown? Probably, decent trunk size is much easier achieved in the ground, and yes we create thick trunks by allowing the tree to grow freely to whatever height it takes to reach the desired trunk thickness

It's hard to tell from the pics of trees in leaf which all start fairly straight but we also prefer to grow the trunk in a series of chops and continued growth to create taper (thick base to thinner top)

Proper root work should take place as the tree goes into the ground, and every few years from there to build a good nebari,

You can thicken a trunk in a container, it just takes much longer, perhaps allow roots to escape into the ground, and ideally use a wide and shallow container to allow roots to spread laterally rather than down

Hope this helps!

 

[Shibui]

Can't be sure of the trees pictured but ground growing is common practice when developing trunks for bonsai. It is not unusual for trees to reach 8 feet tall while in the ground. I grow a lot of trident maples in grow beds. My trees reach 6-8 feet high each summer and are chopped down each winter. Japanese maples don't grow that fast so it takes several years for them to reach that size. Due to slower growth I don't chop Japanese maples every year.
Tridents can take a complete root prune when I need to reduce the root ball. I usually do that when chopping the trunk. Chopped roots simply grow new roots from the cut ends so it's actually better to cut right back than to reduce in stages.
Japanese maples are lightly less hardy to root pruning so I tend to chop roots less which may mean a 2 year program to reduce roots enough to fit into a small pot. Half the roots are reduced right back while the other half are left a bit longer to assist the tree. Next Spring the hard pruned roots should have plenty of new feeder roots to maintain the tree so the remaining longer roots can then be chopped short.

Is it possible to put a tree w a 1/4” truck in a 1-3 gallon size container and have it grow into a 2”+ trunk, if I keep up w root pruning?

It is possible to grow from 1/4" to 2" in a container but it will take a bit longer than the same tree in the ground in ideal conditions. Ideal conditions in the pot (ideal fertiliser, water, temp, shade, etc) will develop quicker than poor conditions. Unfortunately, conditions in pots are rarely perfect. They get hotter and colder with daily cycles and also vary from wet to dry more than garden soil so we'd generally suggest that growth rates in pots will be less than in the ground.
I've found that root pruning has little to do with growth rates. Late winter root reduction is quickly replaced and the trees grow just as well through the rest of Summer. Often root pruning actually increases growth rates as we tend to replace old soil with fresh soil and more fertiliser when root pruning. There's also more space for the new roots after root pruning so growth usually increases after repot.

 

[johng]

Think about growing deciduous bonsai as a two phase process.

Development is the first phase and it is the process where we primarily develop the trunk, rootbase, and maybe primary branches. During this phase it is common to grow a tree in the ground or a larger training pot. Trunks develop quickest by maximizing growth and in the ground or a training container helps to do this. During development you are really trying to make the tree grow fast and get the trunk to size you would like it to be as a bonsai. Once a trees goes into a bonsai pot, trunk growth slows tremendously...your 6" tall tree with a 1/4" trunk in a bonsai pot will take decades to turn into a 24" bonsai with 2-3" trunk diameter.

The second stage is refinement. During refinement you are actually trying to slow the tree down to create smaller branches and twigs. You are working to create ramification of your branches...lots of small branches. This is best done in a smaller container that limits root growth. Smaller/finer roots translates to smaller and finer branches.

 

[Gary.Indiana]

@johng I really appreciate the response.
Let me ask a follow up question, which is really splitting hairs:
What is the difference between a small/young tree in the ground and a small/young tree in an oversized container? (Assuming you keep up w fertilizing and proper watering.)
I keep reading that Japanese Maples are most happy when their root balls are in a snug environment, such as an appropriately sized container.
But, it is also true that JMs do much better in the ground, where there is no containment!!!
Do you see my confusion?
Thanks, again.

 

[rockm]

@johng I really appreciate the response.
Let me ask a follow up question, which is really splitting hairs:
What is the difference between a small/young tree in the ground and a small/young tree in an oversized container? (Assuming you keep up w fertilizing and proper watering.)
I keep reading that Japanese Maples are most happy when their root balls are in a snug environment, such as an appropriately sized container.
But, it is also true that JMs do much better in the ground, where there is no containment!!!
Do you see my confusion?
Thanks, again.

No tree is more “comfortable” in a container. Trees adapt. If they have room to push roots all around an area they will. They do the same in a pot until the physical restriction slows the process down.

 

[misfit11]

Read this:

Why the Earth Is Not Like a Pot

 

[NMbonsai]

Read this:

Why the Earth Is Not Like a Pot

@misfit11: that was a great referral, especially for newcomers. And a reminder for the rest of us. Thanks.

 

[misfit11]

@misfit11: that was a great referral, especially for newcomers. And a reminder for the rest of us. Thanks.

It's an oldie, but a goodie

 

[johng]

I keep reading that Japanese Maples are most happy when their root balls are in a snug environment, such as an appropriately sized container.

Trees don't read and people can rationalize anything...especially when posting to the internet...

I know you are trying to determine what is best for your tree but you seem to be seriously over thinking...

The best place to grow your young tree to something larger is in the ground... an oversized container to start with is a bad idea due to there not being enough roots to populate the container...resulting in sub par soil conditions.

If you need to use a container, start small and work your way up to a larger container over time. Depending on your material... 1 gal pot first growing season, 3 gallon pot next 2 growing seasons, 5-7 gallon pot for the 4th and 5th growing season. That is exactly what the professional nurserymen have been doing for decades...got to be a good reason for it

Since you are developing your tree for bonsai, and it is going to eventually need a shallow rootball, a better choice than nursery containers are Anderson Flats or or even a diy wooden shallow grow box.

 

[dbonsaiw]

The article notes that: “Large particle, highly aerated soils will not support a large saturated volume.” Does this mean that grow boxes can be on the larger side if generally inorganic bonsai soil is used?