Blackthorn seeds.
- Thread starter Zonixz
- Start date
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
I do not have access to Prunus spinosa but I do grow other prunus sp and they should all be reasonably similar.
Assuming you have germinated the seeds and now have seedlings. I trim the roots of almost every seedling I germinate here. have not found any that object and trimming the roots seems to always give more lateral roots and , therefore, better nebari in future.
My best technique for wider trunk and good nebari is to encourage more lateral roots and discourage vertical roots. The more the tree relies on the surface laterals the more the base will flare out as the trunk grows.
If I don't get around to trimming the roots early or don't get a great response Another technique is to thread the first year seedlings through holes drilled in sheet metal then plant the lot so the metal plate is around 1/2 - 1" below soil level. As the trunk thickens the metal constricts circulation and the trunk develops new roots just above. Those new roots are forced to grow horizontal and quickly produce great nebari in around 80%. I have seen others use washers but I find they are a bit too small. Most tiles are a bit too big - takes too long for the roots to grow over and down into damp soil. Ceramic tiles are also quite fragile. The swelling trunks often shatter them here. The metal plates I use are around 3" across.
Other than those tips it is just a matter of letting them grow to get trunk thickening. Grow and chop produces the quickest and best results for me. The grow phase gives thickness. Chop and grow again gives taper and bends in the trunks.
Trunk thickness without taper is not good bonsai IMHO. Need both.
Assuming you have germinated the seeds and now have seedlings. I trim the roots of almost every seedling I germinate here. have not found any that object and trimming the roots seems to always give more lateral roots and , therefore, better nebari in future.
My best technique for wider trunk and good nebari is to encourage more lateral roots and discourage vertical roots. The more the tree relies on the surface laterals the more the base will flare out as the trunk grows.
If I don't get around to trimming the roots early or don't get a great response Another technique is to thread the first year seedlings through holes drilled in sheet metal then plant the lot so the metal plate is around 1/2 - 1" below soil level. As the trunk thickens the metal constricts circulation and the trunk develops new roots just above. Those new roots are forced to grow horizontal and quickly produce great nebari in around 80%. I have seen others use washers but I find they are a bit too small. Most tiles are a bit too big - takes too long for the roots to grow over and down into damp soil. Ceramic tiles are also quite fragile. The swelling trunks often shatter them here. The metal plates I use are around 3" across.
Other than those tips it is just a matter of letting them grow to get trunk thickening. Grow and chop produces the quickest and best results for me. The grow phase gives thickness. Chop and grow again gives taper and bends in the trunks.
Trunk thickness without taper is not good bonsai IMHO. Need both.
Is there a specific time to trim seedling roots also could I place the plate under the tree but burry it in the ground Ive seen everywhere growing them in fields speeds the process some. Thanks!!!
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
I trim the seed root when I transplant seedlings from seed tray to individual pots. That's any time from when the first leaves open through to mid summer. After that I tend to leave them through dormancy and root prune at normal repotting time in spring.
I have found that a time or plate UNDER the roots is a very poor second. Any roots that are bent under the others just push the tree away from the tile so it does nothing. Trees planted too far above the tile - no advantage. Nothing to hold the base of the tree down close to the tile/plate means the roots just push the tree away as they grow. Planting above a tile/plate does not increase the number of roots, just redirects some if you are lucky.
Threading the stem THROUGH a hole usually gives me a whole new lateral root system. Usually a lot more laterals than before and all horizontal roots. Still some that do not work as well as planned but any technique can have some failures.
Note that you see many posts of people starting this plant over a tile process but very few showing the final results.
If it keeps you happy then do it. In my experience, little advantage.
I have found that a time or plate UNDER the roots is a very poor second. Any roots that are bent under the others just push the tree away from the tile so it does nothing. Trees planted too far above the tile - no advantage. Nothing to hold the base of the tree down close to the tile/plate means the roots just push the tree away as they grow. Planting above a tile/plate does not increase the number of roots, just redirects some if you are lucky.
Threading the stem THROUGH a hole usually gives me a whole new lateral root system. Usually a lot more laterals than before and all horizontal roots. Still some that do not work as well as planned but any technique can have some failures.
Note that you see many posts of people starting this plant over a tile process but very few showing the final results.
If it keeps you happy then do it. In my experience, little advantage.
BonsaiManic
Shohin
Your method sounds solid. Have you tried/had success with any other than prunus? I have seeds galore from multiple sources, I may give this a shot.
As far as the tile or plate below, I think this might be effective for trees after a good horizontal root structure has been established. Once the roots/nebari are established, it seems that it may be a good method to help increase the trunk while preventing new roots from growing down. But I'm pretty new in this community. Bonsai is a whole new pet. I will experiment and perhaps report to this thread at some point with results.
As far as the tile or plate below, I think this might be effective for trees after a good horizontal root structure has been established. Once the roots/nebari are established, it seems that it may be a good method to help increase the trunk while preventing new roots from growing down. But I'm pretty new in this community. Bonsai is a whole new pet. I will experiment and perhaps report to this thread at some point with results.
So all you do is stick the seedling stem thru a hole? does the hole size or the thickness of the object with the hole matter? I’ve never herd of this method I’m very new to Bonsai.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Correct. Just stick the stem through the hole.
Make the hole just big enough to get the stem and buds through (which is actually bigger hole than you'll initially estimate as the buds on most species stick out quite a bit).
Larger hole is no problem but it will take longer for the stem to thicken to the point it starts to get constricted. New roots will not start until the stem is restricted and circulation interrupted. The smaller the hole the quicker you'll get new roots.
Thickness of the plate has no relevance as far as I can tell. Thin sheet metal is good. Metal washers work. Wall/floor tiles also work. I have even seen some growers use wood planks which also work but tend to rot away a bit too quick.
Make the hole just big enough to get the stem and buds through (which is actually bigger hole than you'll initially estimate as the buds on most species stick out quite a bit).
Larger hole is no problem but it will take longer for the stem to thicken to the point it starts to get constricted. New roots will not start until the stem is restricted and circulation interrupted. The smaller the hole the quicker you'll get new roots.
Thickness of the plate has no relevance as far as I can tell. Thin sheet metal is good. Metal washers work. Wall/floor tiles also work. I have even seen some growers use wood planks which also work but tend to rot away a bit too quick.
Alright thanks!
Once new roots have formed above i chop the bottom correct
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
You can chop below the plate if you wish. I leave the roots intact because anything that feeds the trunk contributes to growth and size. After a couple of years they will die because no circulation from above so the root below will then fall off by itself.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Some pics may make it easier to understand
Trident seedling threaded through hole in Al sheet
Plant with the plate horizontal and around 1/2" below surface
I keep them in a box in the nursery for the first summer so they don't get dry while the roots reach the edge of the plates.
Roots cut close to the edge of plates to encourage more root ramification before transplanting to grow boxes or into the ground.
Sample of tridents after year 2. Note that multi trunks fuse together quickly.
Roots through the plate may still be active at this stage. No problem leaving them until they die naturally.
Roots cut close to the edge of the plates again to encourage further ramification and replanted for further growth.
After another year in the grow beds. Check out the roots that have grown from ends of roots cut last winter.
Roots may still be active but most have died and will fall off now.
Trident seedling threaded through hole in Al sheet
Plant with the plate horizontal and around 1/2" below surface
I keep them in a box in the nursery for the first summer so they don't get dry while the roots reach the edge of the plates.
Roots cut close to the edge of plates to encourage more root ramification before transplanting to grow boxes or into the ground.
Sample of tridents after year 2. Note that multi trunks fuse together quickly.
Roots through the plate may still be active at this stage. No problem leaving them until they die naturally.
Roots cut close to the edge of the plates again to encourage further ramification and replanted for further growth.
After another year in the grow beds. Check out the roots that have grown from ends of roots cut last winter.
Roots may still be active but most have died and will fall off now.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Thread several seedlings through for multi trunk trees.
See how well the base of trunks fuse as roots entwine and thicken.
Roots are now dead and plates can be removed.
Single trunk trees also have the plates removed after 2-4 years.
From now very few roots will grow from the base of these trees. Root activity is concentrated on the lateral roots from now on.
See how well the base of trunks fuse as roots entwine and thicken.
Roots are now dead and plates can be removed.
Single trunk trees also have the plates removed after 2-4 years.
From now very few roots will grow from the base of these trees. Root activity is concentrated on the lateral roots from now on.
