Big fat overgrown spruce-All sprucoids please advise?

[Bonsai Nut]

When you guys are saying cut back to a bud you mean cut here right?

You can see there is even a bud below that one.

 

[Johnathan]

You can see there is even a bud below that one.

Indeed I do. Thanks @Walter Pall and @Bonsai Nut

I have smaller one of these that need some "sprucing" up next month.... See what I did there

 

[crust]

First off I like your spruce very much. Spruce are beautiful trees but a real pain in the neck.

Andy Smith of Golden Arrow Bonsai removes buds at the "fuzzy egg" stage (when buds are fat and fuzzy but before they extend). New buds form which can be pruned back 3 to 6 weeks later. This info specifically for Black Hills spruces but his website states that it is generally applicable to Engleman and Colorado spruce.

Disclaimer - I've only had my BH spruce since spring of 16. We did an initial styling in April and Andy advised not to do much the rest of the year. (Tree was collected in spring of 2014 but Andy determined that it was strong enough for some styling.)

This year I did remove some buds at the terminals and got back budding which I left alone. (Tree was repotted this year but I did not have to root prune.) Next year I will be more aggressive. (I will see Andy in October and discuss timing of general pruning.)

I have followed Andy's process on a dwarf Black spruce (Mariana) and it back buds like crazy. I prune back to inner buds in the fall. However this is younger nursery grown material. In the past I have pinched the new growth which also worked well but think the bud removal produced more back budding.

Obviously there are different ways to manage foliage on spruce. The only thing I would say for certain is to be conservative. I think we can be fooled by a tree which seems vigorous and do too much too fast on conifers in general and this goes double for older collected material.

I have read of his "early spring complete removal system" and can only say this seems like a very energy draining imposition only to be done on energized trees--but then I have never tried this.

 

[crust]

To increase ramification: let grow from March on. Do nothing other than place in sun, water extensively and feed a lot, also with nitrogen. Then, depending on your location from beginning of August to end of August cut back with scissors everything that has grown this year. The cuts should make all new growth the same length. The long ones are cut much more and the short ones less. Continue to place in sun, water and feed aggressively. Then lots of new buds will appear and you are all set for next spring.
To make new growth short: Pinch with fingers or fine scissor in April to May when the new shoots are stretched and still soft. Make them all the same length, meaning to pinch the long ones much more back than the shorter ones. Result: new growth will appear in June/July and it will be shorter and the needle are smaller. This one does with 'finished' tees.

Ahhh, the king of spruce, Thank you Walter--and everybody, I will continue to energize until early in August and then put the scissors to her.

 

[Johnathan]

One last question, I hope Crust doesn't mind.

The best time to repot a spruce is late August/ early September? Is that correct?

 

[Walter Pall]

Depending on your local climat, late summer repotting is the best time. NOT later, like the book tells you.

 

[augustine]

Crust wrote - I have read of his "early spring complete removal system" and can only say this seems like a very energy draining imposition only to be done on energized trees--but then I have never tried this.

Crust, I agree with you, the tree better be vigorous.

Anyway Walter gave us very good advice which I am going to use next spring. The tree is pumped up with energy, only good things will happen.

Thank you Walter!

 

[sorce]

Great confidence building thread...

Specially since my Black hills planting is going to have to be approved by all you!

Thanks!

Sorce

 

[coh]

Interesting discussion. Please let us know how your tree responds to whatever pruning you try.

I have limited experience, as I have only one spruce - but it is an Engelmann, a @Walter Pall "selected" tree from Nature's Way. After almost killing it the first couple of years, it came back strong and I am now trying to refine it and develop ramification. My experience has been that if I pinch new shoots as they extend, I rarely get a bud on that shoot. Instead, I get a group of 2-4 or more buds right at the base, like you'd get from decandling a JBP (I think Oso mentioned this). On the other hand, if I allow the new growth to extend and harden, I'll get a terminal bud and usually several other buds - but almost always right near the tip, behind the terminal bud. So there really isn't much to cut back to...

Had a discussion with RN about this and it matches his experience (and he indicated it is a peculiarity of Engelmann, not the same as other spruces). The tree does willingly bud back on the branches and even the trunk (mainly younger part near the top), but I'm not exactly sure what the best way is to develop shorter/ramified growth.