fredman
Masterpiece
Great, so I had that right. Do I assume then that a satsuki hybrid might have either 5, or more petals?
Best time to dig azaleas?
- Thread starter Gsquared
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Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Satsuki is not a species nor a genus. Satsuki began as a hybrid between R. indica and R. tamurae but breeders have continued to breed both among satsuki varieties and with other species to get the many varieties today so satsuki has many bloodlines from a range of azalea species. All satsuki are hybrids already but i don't know enough about the breeding of azalea to know what effect further crossing back to indica will have, if any.
Note that R. indica was one of the original parents so they are closely related to the indica azaleas we know as garden plants. Garden indicas are also widely crossed with other species to get different colors and flower shapes so even indica azaleas are not just R. indica but also hybrids of various species..
Kurume is a group named after a town where the breeder started using several species to breed a different strain of azalea. Kurume is not a species either it refers to a whole group descended from those original crosses in Japan.
There are a number of other azalea strains that are known by the name of the original breeders.
I've stopped trying to work out the differences and strains.
Note that R. indica was one of the original parents so they are closely related to the indica azaleas we know as garden plants. Garden indicas are also widely crossed with other species to get different colors and flower shapes so even indica azaleas are not just R. indica but also hybrids of various species..
Kurume is a group named after a town where the breeder started using several species to breed a different strain of azalea. Kurume is not a species either it refers to a whole group descended from those original crosses in Japan.
There are a number of other azalea strains that are known by the name of the original breeders.
I've stopped trying to work out the differences and strains.
Harunobu
Chumono
The definition of 'satsuki' I like most is any azalea that is registered with the Japanese satsuki society (and maybe first generation offspring as well). But the question was how to tell the difference. I am not really sure how I am able to tell the difference. It is almost like asking someone about how they can tell the difference between the face of their younger and older brother. If you see them, you just know, because of experience. You may tell someone 'my older brother has a larger nose', and that may be true. But if you recognize them from their faces, you don't consciously look and measure the size of their nose.
Very generally, there are two types of satsuki. One that resembles R.indicum. And one that resembles R.tamurae (or aka R.eriocarpum,. It is easier to recognize a R.indicum-type satsuki. And recognizing either of those is easiest by linking the azalea hybrid back to either R.indicum or R.tamurae (or more accurately the archtype maruba satsuki that is a hybrid of R.indicum and R.tamuae).
This is how R.indicum looks:
Source: https://mstyasou.exblog.jp/19982250/
The narrow leaves you see in this picture are the same as you see in 'Osakazuki', 'Kinsai', 'Korin', 'Kozan'.
The only other azalea that has these narrow leaves is R.nakaharae. I cannot tell the difference between R.nakaharae leaves or R.indicum leaves. It doesn't help that all R.nakaharae hybrids I have seen were R.nakaharae x R.indicum. The way to tell if something is an R.nakaharae hybrid is easy, though. If it is creeping, it has R.nakaharae genes. In that case, you cannot tell if it is also R.indicum/satsuki. If it is mounding, it is R.indicum.
Another way to recognize a satsuki is the elegant round flower shape. This is largely a result of breeding and not of the species. Satsuki were bred as potted plants with individualistic flowers. All other azalea groups are largely landscaping plants, where specific flower shape and petal roundness is irrelevant.
R.tamuarae in the wild looks like this:
Source: http://samy8940.tea-nifty.com/blog/2012/05/index.html
The leaves are very different, hence the name 'maruba satsuki' aka 'round leaf satsuki'. But, the leaves not very distinct to some kurume. The best way to tell something is a maruba satsuki is actually the flower shape. It is the famous ruffled (namiuchi zaki) shape of Gumpo and others:
So R.tamurae explains the purple colours and the rounder leaves in satsuki. But hybrids of the species R.indicum and R.tamurae actually look nothing like most satsuki.
There are many volcanoes in Japan where R.kaempferi (red flower) and R.kiusianum (purple flower) overlap. And you find natural byhrids of all colours there. and these hybrids resemble kurume cultivar.
R.indicum and R.tamurae actually overlap very little. There is an area in Yakushima island where natural hybrids are found, and they too have a range of colours not seen in the species. But apparently these natural hybrids lack some of the features we see and like in satsuki. You cannot find sporting or the above namiuchi flower shape, so distinct for maruba satsuki.
The hypothesis is that sporting in satuski comes from R.simsii as apparently out of all species forms, R.simsii are most prone to sporting.
Some more reading:
Hunting Japanese azaleas - Giulio Veronese
giulioveronese.com
I especially recommend 'The Origin of Satsukis: The Yakushima Connection' by Barry Yinger.
I don't know if this helps. But years of looking carefully at every azalea you see anywhere helps.
There are many hybrids though that elude IDing of species, often because their background is so diverse. If a hybrid is 12.5% R.kiusianum, 12.5% R.simsii, 12.5% yedoense poukhanense, 12.5 R.indicum, 12.5% mucronatum and 12.5% kurume, 12.5% maruba satuski, and 12.5% R.nakaharae, how does it look?
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. I'm properly confused...I mean enlightened now 
