Baobab style Norfolk Island Pine?

[jdonchig]

Greetings all. I recently started trying baobab style pruning and had good success with succulents. I was hoping to do something interesting with a clup of Norfolk Island Pines and wondered if their structure would accomodate baobab style. Anyone hereactually tried this, or if not,does anyone who know more about trees than me have any idea how they might respond? Or do I just set off on an adventure and report back?

 

[rockm]

Greetings all. I recently started trying baobab style pruning and had good success with succulents. I was hoping to do something interesting with a clup of Norfolk Island Pines and wondered if their structure would accomodate baobab style. Anyone hereactually tried this, or if not,does anyone who know more about trees than me have any idea how they might respond? Or do I just set off on an adventure and report back?

Norfolk Island Pine is problematic using bonsai techniques. It isn't a "real" pine, for instance. It is a tropical conifer species in the Araucaria family (monkey puzzle tree) with different growth habits and characteristics. For instance, it is hesitant to branch or backbud from lower portions of the trunk. If you do a search here on NIP or Norfolk Island Pine, you will get a lot more info (most of it bad news, unfortunately).

 

[penumbra]

I have never seen a convincing NIP in any bonsai style. You might be able to pull it off, but I personally will stick with plants more amenable to bonsai styles. But in most instances I never say never.

 

[Dabbler]

I have never seen a convincing NIP in any bonsai style. You might be able to pull it off, but I personally will stick with plants more amenable to bonsai styles. But in most instances I never say never.

This!

 

[RJG2]

Thats completly inaccurate. My norfolk was purchased topped. It had 6 new leader buds forming. I chopped it maybe at a foot tall and am using the top to experiment rooting large stems. If you do any small tiny amount of investigation on the internet youll find even a small branch can root. From the nabari 3 additional trunks have become three additional trees each of which have at multiple point put out multiple leader and if you trim branchs they put out multiple branchlet shoots. My large trunk is currently two leaders. My main leader has sub leaders. You can pretty much treat it like a podocarpus. I mean even my araucaria araucana has 6 new leaders at its base and i trimmed every branch tip to encourage new growth in the spring. I dont mean to be rude but i have NO clue where this rumor started.

The problem isnt the tree, the problem is that the people who do it are generally not bonsai artist and thus all you see is crap. In south america A. Angustifolia, A. Arucana, and A. Heterophyllia are all used in great effect to get that awesoms monkey puzzle shape. But you could easily get anything from upright to broom. I will say this, the one thing that is close to impossible is to get the mature norfolk pine shape from a NIP but thats fair no one ever make a bonsai that looks like a proper adult version of the tree aside from ficus and black pine. Even in those cases its more just suggestive. If you ask me NIP haz i credible potential.

I'd love to see some mature examples of them as bonsai; care to share?

 

[rockm]

Thats completly inaccurate. My norfolk was purchased topped. It had 6 new leader buds forming. I chopped it maybe at a foot tall and am using the top to experiment rooting large stems. If you do any small tiny amount of investigation on the internet youll find even a small branch can root. From the nabari 3 additional trunks have become three additional trees each of which have at multiple point put out multiple leader and if you trim branchs they put out multiple branchlet shoots. My large trunk is currently two leaders. My main leader has sub leaders. You can pretty much treat it like a podocarpus. I mean even my araucaria araucana has 6 new leaders at its base and i trimmed every branch tip to encourage new growth in the spring. I dont mean to be rude but i have NO clue where this rumor started.

And FWIW, I've tried Norfolk Island Pine as bonsai. It isn't great and not easy.

Prove me wrong, post some pics of a decent Norfolk Island Pine bonsai, or better yet, post pics of what YOURS look like...

 

[Orion_metalhead]

You asked about a convinving baobob styled tree... not likely.. itll take a loooong time to get the trunk thickness associated with baobobs in a norfolk...

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Where are you located? Here in the US I have never seen a norfolk that looks like that.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

If youre in Maine (or USA in general) there is about a .01% chance you'll be able to import something like the trees you pictured.

All the best.

 

[rockm]

You clearly have the ibtention to be mean. Nothing i say will be good enough for you. You will just say my tree is bad and then say you are right. My tree was just a regular norfolk pine a month ago. I have only done the first work on it. What could i accomplish then? How about angustifolia? Would that be good enough for you? See renato hoenigs work on an araucaria angustifolia. Then you see early prebonsai norfolk pine. I am vulnerable. I have bipolar and borderline. Words hurt me more then you think. Especially when i know EXACTLY what you have felt behinde them. I can extract the insults. People like you would rather be right then see beauty. People like you are why this forum is insuferable. I pray i can last in this forum this time around. I pray o do not loose my temper and use words that are rude and upset people who read them. Mostly i am offended because the besuty i can see is so vivid in my mind. Its truly sad that you cannot see that across the whole family of plants they behave like angustifolia. Maybe you should see with your imagination instead of calling others wrong with attitude and vehemence, that daring accusitory athoritative tone. If you cant see potential on these photos then god bless you. I pray you see it. You deserve it. We all deserve to feel wonder again. Ever sense social media started we seemed to have lost wonder. Were all defensive now. Its too bad because people think bonsai is sp exclusive but the word tree is just a discription. Snything can be a tree if we look at it right. Thats the point of bonsai. You should also check out totara trees, Agathis, and nageia. Agathis ovata is INSANLY beautiful. Ficus is my specialty though, ficus austrocalidonica is amazing. I love my podocarpus henklii thats going to be insane when its older. The last picture shows how well norfolk pines back bud. If you just keep doing that, youll have all the taper and branch you could need. The branchs work the same way you can just cut them to shape and prune them back two like 4 needles and they will bud new branch buds. You can build structure that way. Its bonsai. It take time.

My intention wasn't to trigger you. You have no idea of my feelings "behind" anything I say.

My questions (and yes challenge--because you make some claims that really aren't born out in day to day bonsai --show me ONE Norfolk Island pine in any official collection) My post was to get you to post pics of trees and extend the discussion. Simple as that. Your emotional outburst here says you easily take offense when asked basic questions and answering them isn't worth the time.

You won't hear from me any more. People like you are one reason I'm spending less and less time here.

 

[BonsaiManic]

You're cocky and overconfident. Why in the name of research would you come here asking questions and then flake out and rage against the very people trying to help you? You have a lot to learn, and that should happen before you even attempt bonsai. You, and people like you, are the reason so many veterans have no interest in helping newbies like myself. I'm here to learn from those who have already tried and failed or succeeded before me so that I can skip some failures myself.

Obviously, you already know everything there is to know about bonsai, so you don't need this forum any more than it needs you. And how dare you invoke the name of Jesus with an attitude like yours. I hope you study His Word better in the future!

 

[leatherback]

But you dont care. You dont trust anyones words. Your completly alone. Thats sad. Hope you either leave or become friendly!

Typical projecting behaviour.

Maybe you will better understand if it is worded differently.
People are sceptical, because there are no examples of good bonsai of e.g., norfolk island pine. Your plants are just that. Living plants n a pot. that does not make them good bonsai, exemplary of how this species can result in good bonsai. Loads of plants can be kept in plants. Only a limited number is actually a good fit for developing good bonsai.

 

[BonsaiManic]

@rockm, I really hope that you and other veterans of the art will be able to ignore the arrogant ignorance of some amateurs like the first poster on this page, because your knowledge and experience is crucial for those of us who are truly here to learn.

My apologies to @jdonchig if my previous post seemed directed at him. It was intended for @ficusbonsai.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Also i said maine. That wasnt unclear or in general. That means maine, as in the state. Maybe you are the one who is in some other country. It would explain the attitude. Go listen to imperial triumphant or deathspell omega and have a good relaxation moment. Gooozefrabba. By the way i just got agatjis robusta. I know where to get wollemi too. the king of all gymnosperms.

I wasnt intending anything negative but it's clear you have some other things going on in your life manifesting in your responses.

DSO would not be my first choice if I wanted to listen to a French band.

Good luck.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Maybe this one...

 

[BrianBay9]

Greetings all. I recently started trying baobab style pruning and had good success with succulents. I was hoping to do something interesting with a clup of Norfolk Island Pines and wondered if their structure would accomodate baobab style. Anyone hereactually tried this, or if not,does anyone who know more about trees than me have any idea how they might respond? Or do I just set off on an adventure and report back?

It seems the OP got pushed out of this discussion rather quickly. I hope you got an answer you can run with. I've not seen any NIP bonsai either, nor worked with the tree other than a patio plant. Sounds like Rockm has, with challenging results. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try if you like. Set off on your adventure and report back.

 

[BrianBay9]

Incorrect. I have. Everyone else is crying at me that its impossible with narcissistic attitudes then crying when i tell them how rude they are.

What's incorrect? I said I haven't seen any. I still haven't. Show us a good NIP bonsai.

 

[leatherback]

..bla bla bla i have no ability to think and i enjoy nothing and have no dreams or imagination and dont work on anything but juniper, black pine, and japanese maple i tolerate ficus microcarpa, but the second pertusa or benjimina enters the chat i get a rash and start to vomit because of my anxiety. I am boring and dont do anything but color inside the lines and will never i vent or create anything new my entire life. I am nothing but an echo of what has already come before me. If anyone ever tries to encourage someone i will instantly shut then down and cry then make everything there fault. Then all my ice troll clones will come and create an echo chamber. This is my life Well i dont know about the first part but the second part is poetry.

Not sure why you have so much aggression in you. Unless you were booted of this platform which I leave to @Bonsai Nut to decide. But I do not feel anybody has given any reason for you to act like a total dickhead on here. It would be nice if you just showed some form of maturity.

And else, just f off.

 

[defra]

Lmfao you are blind if you cant see pictures and im sorry but im not a doctor. Its called tact. You dont have it. Spend less time hear be my guest. I can indeed see and hear and taste feelings. Cant you feel the letters between the lines? Cant u notice them? You came at me negatively. Try being positive its should ...please everyone at conceptual eve...of conversstion. No one...and i mean no one....recieves from a place of aggression. Maybe you should think and speak like neutrally. "You mean you think norfolk pines can be a bonsai? Thats odd id not many people think that can be done id love to see examples!" Oh yes of course i can show you pictures of where it starts and relsted species at completion, and i do despise nigel saunders and the bonsai zone because reasons but his norfolk pine forest shows how they respond to clipping over 4 years and some change but he doesnt evem try to give anything he does a chance he always chops e er advantagelpous branch off and he never gives them a chance to mature. But you dont care. You dont trust anyones words. Your completly alone. Thats sad. Hope you either leave or become friendly!

you are just an ass and expect neutral messages after this ive read the whole thread and i dont realy get the negative feel on the replies you get except your responses.
you must live in a different world then the oldtimers here go invent the wheel yourself and live a lonely life!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Being better then all you low end rage baiters isnt overly confident.

I think you need to look in a mirror. I haven't seen anything overly aggressive here - except your responses.

(1) I have a Norfolk Island Pine. I have some experience with the species. They grow in landscape in SoCal and are pretty common (screen grab from Google Maps of one growing in my old neighborhood). I like them so much - as a houseplant - that I have kept one here in NC where I need to bring it in for the winter, and put it outside every spring. But it isn't a bonsai. It is just a tree in a pot.



(2) They are not easy species to work with for bonsai. This is a fact. I have yet to see a convincing NIP bonsai. Doesn't mean one doesn't exist - but when I go to dozens of shows, and read tons of books, and visit numerous bonsai web sites, and have not seen one - that means they are very rare to non-existent. This is not hate - it is reality - and there is probably a good reason why.

This thread brings me back to my "How to be a successful bonsai beginner" thread. People generally don't offer advice here in order to score ego points. If they have been practicing bonsai for decades, and mention something off-hand because it is so understood as to be almost self-evident, it isn't because they want you to fail. They have probably already tried what you are attempting - and want to save you the grief. I read a lot of aggression in your posts - a whole heckuva lot of "I'll show you!" without showing us much of anything. No one wants you to fail. They just want to spare you the heartache.

However it is a free world - and you can repeat other peoples' mistakes over and over until you learn what they already know. Or you can try listening to other peoples' experience, and try to replicate their success. Your choice.

[EDIT] I'm going to add a little anecdote. I once kept a mental list of trees/plants that I thought were impossible to use for bonsai. High on that list was the common sumac, Rhus species, which, while having gorgeous fall color, is notorious for leggy straight growth, long internodes, large compound leaves that don't reduce... and is the first thing to drop its leaves in the fall and the last to bud out in the spring. And yet - Hiroshi Takeyama of Fuyo-en probably thought that same thing, and took it on as a challenge. So he now owns one of the only sumac bonsai on the planet Granted, it is 5' tall - but given the difficulty of the species a lot of leeway is given. I would love to see the tree in person!



Now, if, instead of Norfolk Island Pine, you had asked people about using common sumac for bonsai, you would have probably gotten a similar reaction. Everyone would tell you to avoid it - and try something easier/better suited for bonsai. But now at least we can say it isn't impossible - just very very hard. And unless you have Hiroshi Takeyama's level of experience, you might want to practice on other material first No hate intended, no ego points scored [/EDIT]