Bald cypress - possible incipient knee?

[coh]

For those of you with experience with bald cypress and in particular, cypress knees. I unpotted my bald cypress to work on the roots this week, and found an interesting knobby growth on the root system. A couple of pictures are below. Second one is blurry, sorry about that. Anyway, this single growth looks rather different than all other root growth I've seen, somewhat different surface texture and no fine roots emanating from it. Shaped kind of like a tulip or daffodil bulb with a distinct pointed end. Wondering if it might be the early stages of a knee forming.

Some background...obtained the tree as a seedling about 10 years ago, planted in the ground (regular garden soil, not wet). Dug up once or twice to work on the roots during the 10 or so years it was in the ground. Dug up and potted 2 years ago. Don't remember noticing this growth at that time. First summer I grew it as a "normal" tree, but last summer I sat it in a container of water for much of the summer, not very deep but enough to keep the root system pretty wet.

Will certainly keep an eye on this. Depending on how the tree does this year, next repotting might be next year or more likely, 2026.

 

[Cadillactaste]

@johng ... what do you think?

 

[rockm]

It might be, it also might be a callus from previous root pruning. Knees typically develop on the top of a sharply descending root at the top surface. Since this growth seems to be under the primary root mass, hmmm.

https://gnobs.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/CREATION-OF-KNEES-ON-BALD-CYPRESS.pdf

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I am pretty sure that knees on bald cypress do not form outside of anaerobic conditions. This generally requires rootbound soil submerged in water. I had a long conversation about it with a botanist at the Huntington gardens in their bog room... with bald cypress growing knees all over the place.

 

[99 Mile Creek]

For those of you with experience with bald cypress and in particular, cypress knees. I unpotted my bald cypress to work on the roots this week, and found an interesting knobby growth on the root system. A couple of pictures are below. Second one is blurry, sorry about that. Anyway, this single growth looks rather different than all other root growth I've seen, somewhat different surface texture and no fine roots emanating from it. Shaped kind of like a tulip or daffodil bulb with a distinct pointed end. Wondering if it might be the early stages of a knee forming.

Some background...obtained the tree as a seedling about 10 years ago, planted in the ground (regular garden soil, not wet). Dug up once or twice to work on the roots during the 10 or so years it was in the ground. Dug up and potted 2 years ago. Don't remember noticing this growth at that time. First summer I grew it as a "normal" tree, but last summer I sat it in a container of water for much of the summer, not very deep but enough to keep the root system pretty wet.

Will certainly keep an eye on this. Depending on how the tree does this year, next repotting might be next year or more likely, 2026.

This is interesting.

Do you have any photos along its journey to date? It would be neat to see.

I was also curious why you switched from dry to wet. If you could have done it differently, would you have chosen to place it in standing water from the beginning?

I'm currently letting my BC and dawn redwood take a few days at a time with an inch or so in water and then sitting them out for a day. I'm on the fence as to whether I should just keep them in water. I'm more concerned about my dawn redwood, but evidence shows they can be treated the same -- at least from what I've gathered from anecdotes and photos of them in the wild.

 

[19Mateo83]

This is interesting.

Do you have any photos along its journey to date? It would be neat to see.

I was also curious why you switched from dry to wet. If you could have done it differently, would you have chosen to place it in standing water from the beginning?

I'm currently letting my BC and dawn redwood take a few days at a time with an inch or so in water and then sitting them out for a day. I'm on the fence as to whether I should just keep them in water. I'm more concerned about my dawn redwood, but evidence shows they can be treated the same -- at least from what I've gathered from anecdotes and photos of them in the wild.

I keep my two DRW in about 3 inches of water year round and they seem to love it.

 

[99 Mile Creek]

I keep my two DRW in about 3 inches of water year round and they seem to love it.

Good to hear. That gives me less anxiety hearing your success. I'll probably stop with the back and forth then.

 

[19Mateo83]

Good to hear. That gives me less anxiety hearing your success. I'll probably stop with the back and forth then.

I treat them exactly the same as BC

 

[Joe Dupre']

Well, here's my take on cypress knees. Before I moved 6 years ago, my other place had 17 bald cypress trees. 3 of them were on high ground approx. 5 feet above the Bayou Lafourche water level which was my back property line. The ones on the high ground made just about as many knees as the ones on and in the water's edge. Now, I don't know how that translates to container culture. Randy Bennet is our local bald cypress guru and he told me that it's unusual for his trees NOT to have knees. He floods his trees for most of the summer and allows them to dry out a bit in the winter.

Your "knee" situation may or may not be. I had a similar type of growth on one of my bonsai. It ended up being a "sorta" knee........... more like bulbous, uplifted root. It did give the tree a lot of character, though.

 

[coh]

This is interesting.

Do you have any photos along its journey to date? It would be neat to see.

I was also curious why you switched from dry to wet. If you could have done it differently, would you have chosen to place it in standing water from the beginning?

Couple of reasons for the dry to wet - one, I wanted to establish the root system in the container and wasn't sure if keeping it too wet was a good idea. Two, I hadn't really read much about the idea of keeping them sitting in water until pretty recently. Then the final reason was I was having trouble keeping up with the watering during the warmer weather last summer, sitting it in a tub eliminated that issue pretty quickly.

It's going back in the water later this month. Again wanted the root system to re-establish a bit before doing that. Who knows what the "best" approach is.

As for photos, I probably don't have any...been pretty lazy about photos for a number of years now.

 

[coh]

Well, here's my take on cypress knees. Before I moved 6 years ago, my other place had 17 bald cypress trees. 3 of them were on high ground approx. 5 feet above the Bayou Lafourche water level which was my back property line. The ones on the high ground made just about as many knees as the ones on and in the water's edge. Now, I don't know how that translates to container culture. Randy Bennet is our local bald cypress guru and he told me that it's unusual for his trees NOT to have knees. He floods his trees for most of the summer and allows them to dry out a bit in the winter.

Your "knee" situation may or may not be. I had a similar type of growth on one of my bonsai. It ended up being a "sorta" knee........... more like bulbous, uplifted root. It did give the tree a lot of character, though.

I'm thinking it might be something like a burl or gall, but time will tell. It looked like callus but not like the typical callus you get from a pruning wound. So maybe something triggered by an insect or virus?

 

[BrightsideB]

Can’t answer the OP question.

Would it be possible to get knee’s in a container with certain soil mixtures and keeping the soil saturated?

Maybe allow roots to escape into the ground but keeping the container soil saturated? Interesting experiments could be done I assume. I’ve seen some bonsai BC with knee’s. I personally think they are nice!

 

[99 Mile Creek]

Couple of reasons for the dry to wet - one, I wanted to establish the root system in the container and wasn't sure if keeping it too wet was a good idea. Two, I hadn't really read much about the idea of keeping them sitting in water until pretty recently. Then the final reason was I was having trouble keeping up with the watering during the warmer weather last summer, sitting it in a tub eliminated that issue pretty quickly.

It's going back in the water later this month. Again wanted the root system to re-establish a bit before doing that. Who knows what the "best" approach is.

As for photos, I probably don't have any...been pretty lazy about photos for a number of years now.

Thanks for the insight.

My BC had its roots trimmed, and went from nursery pot to bonsai pot, before being I picked it up at a shop. Been home one week and it looks unhappy -- foliage is browning.

I've been keeping it in a tub of water (inch below pot height), as it was in a tub of water before being prepared. It may need some time out of the water. I'm uncertain what the deal is. Maybe it's just going through a period of shock.

Edit: Maybe I should stop taking it in and out -- or stick with one or the other?

 

[snowman04]

I have two and one is growing like crazy and the other has 25% brown leaves. The only thing I see between the two is the one with brown leaves is in less soil than the other.

Both get fertilized the same and watered the same with the same sun exposure... Going to pot up the one to match the other and see if it helps...

 

[Joe Dupre']

Thanks for the insight.

My BC had its roots trimmed, and went from nursery pot to bonsai pot, before being I picked it up at a shop. Been home one week and it looks unhappy -- foliage is browning.

I've been keeping it in a tub of water (inch below pot height), as it was in a tub of water before being prepared. It may need some time out of the water. I'm uncertain what the deal is. Maybe it's just going through a period of shock.

Edit: Maybe I should stop taking it in and out -- or stick with one or the other?

No proof, but I have a hunch that cypress may have trouble STARTING roots in water. Once roots are established, then submerging in water is an option.

 

[99 Mile Creek]

I have two and one is growing like crazy and the other has 25% brown leaves. The only thing I see between the two is the one with brown leaves is in less soil than the other.

Both get fertilized the same and watered the same with the same sun exposure... Going to pot up the one to match the other and see if it helps...

I'd be interested in hearing your findings. Mine did receive new soil too -- FL to KY as well, so that is a confounding variable as well.

 

[99 Mile Creek]

That's interesting. I

No proof, but I have a hunch that cypress may have trouble STARTING roots in water. Once roots are established, then submerging in water is an option.

That's interesting. I'd be curious if anyone has the science behind that.

I also read somewhere (some forum or another) to just pop it back into water after repotting -- just as cuttings grow in water...but there might be something to what you say. If it works for you...I'll certainly give it a shot to see if it recovers any better.

 

[coh]

Thanks for the insight.

My BC had its roots trimmed, and went from nursery pot to bonsai pot, before being I picked it up at a shop. Been home one week and it looks unhappy -- foliage is browning.

I've been keeping it in a tub of water (inch below pot height), as it was in a tub of water before being prepared. It may need some time out of the water. I'm uncertain what the deal is. Maybe it's just going through a period of shock.

Edit: Maybe I should stop taking it in and out -- or stick with one or the other?

The problem is, you don't know how the root work was done, what the roots looked like, was it repotted before or after shoots started growing...lots of unknowns. Have you had it out in full/direct sun? If so, my first thought would be to get it into a shadier spot (maybe they had it in a shadier spot) - maybe good morning sun but shade from late morning on, until the browning stops and new growth looks normal. Mine is in full sun and no browning, but I know that it had a good healthy root system and it was repotted just as the buds were starting to pop. Plus it's a lot cooler up here.

 

[99 Mile Creek]

The problem is, you don't know how the root work was done, what the roots looked like, was it repotted before or after shoots started growing...lots of unknowns. Have you had it out in full/direct sun? If so, my first thought would be to get it into a shadier spot (maybe they had it in a shadier spot) - maybe good morning sun but shade from late morning on, until the browning stops and new growth looks normal. Mine is in full sun and no browning, but I know that it had a good healthy root system and it was repotted just as the buds were starting to pop. Plus it's a lot cooler up here.

Right. No I have no idea what the roots look like, but no way it would have been able to be potted with the amount of roots it had in the nursery pot.

I placed it out of full sun first thing. It’s shaded from the morning sun. Gets noon and evening sun currently.

Sounds like it’s recovering from its roots being cut back. Hope it pulls through.