Are you a Net Bonsai Wanker?

[milehigh_7]

Hey Al, I thought I'd help you out as best I could. I got something for the general area, but it may not help enough with the itching so you may need to see a doctor.
Mary B.

Wonder if that stuff can be used to seal cut wounds?

 

[DaveG]

Evolution is a strange thing you know? it used to be a very slow process but nowdays, due to the amazing archivements of modern tecnology, all sort of new things are popping out everywhere, including a new species of bonsaist called: NET BONSAI WANKER.
A NBW spent 90% of his bonsai-time in front of the computer and behind the keyboard he/she feels the right to bitch about anything under the sun. Yes because that's where bonsai should be made, under the sun, outdoor right?!?!....but they prefer to spread all over the world their very little, or more likely no existing, bonsai knowledge holding a plastic mouse in their hands instead of a bonsai tool. I hardly understand the fun of cyber-sex but someone with few decent tree and A LIFE, shouldn't get busy working on their trees right!?!?....but a real NBW doesn't really have much of bonsai in his/her garden, they are always ready to share their godspell judgments with everybody, but when it comes time to see what they really do, they are so cleaver of coming out with an increbile list of excuses about why that tree died, of that other bonsai is sick or why their best bonsai is no more than a brumm stick.

As it's stated, the definition could probably be applied to me by some members on here already, though I doubt any of them would say it seriously. But my lack of experience at bonsai is the reason why I'm primarily approaching this from the perspective of a human being, not a practitioner of bonsai.

This definition of "net bonsai wanker" pretty closely matches the description of nearly anyone who is opinionated and spirited in discussion, doesn't have a lot of trees yet, and doesn't presently have the ability to obtain more quickly. So most people on the Internet who are new to bonsai could fit the definition. Bonsai is a huge exercise in patience for many reasons, some of which are that most of the time, our trees need to be left alone and finding even just one good new tree can sometimes take an agonizingly long time. I don't really see what's so unusual about spending 10 times as much time talking about my trees on the Internet as I spend hacking away at them or repotting them. In fact, if I'm browsing around on here or writing up a post, I usually wish I could be doing something with my trees instead. But sometimes they just don't need me yet.

The primary problem I have with these statements is the same problem I have with any expert of any kind who seems to feel infinitely more valuable as a person for having their level of experience, as compared to everyone else. They feel so entitled that they feel it's perfectly acceptable to insult the inexperienced, either forgetting that they were once inexperienced themselves or feeling it was justfied when they were insulted by such people when they were inexperienced. Sure, it's part of the human condition and everyone probably does it at least a little bit, but that doesn't mean it's something we should do. When we do this, we should expect others to think we're wankers, which has nothing to do with bonsai or nets.

If he's going to insult a group of people, I'd at least like to see him spend a little time insulting the newbies who somehow get their hands on some awesome third generation heirloom tree or some once-in-a-lifetime yamadori and impatiently manage to systematically obliterate any chance it has of ever being valuable again as anything but kindling, without ever even trying to ask for advice anywhere at all until after it's too late. But this group of people is apparently not the group of people he's talking about, because these people spend more time with their trees than with their plastic mice and boardsful of keys. At least in the few days before they're totally dead.

Reading this thread has been really amusing. And as a new member I have to say, the fact that so many members here have flocked to put this down has left me with an overall positive impression of this site's user base.

 

[JasonG]

Kimura is not the begining and the end of bonsai... in fact - no one is. For our country, it's kind of like Kennedy... it was over when Naka died... that idea that one person could unify/shape the majority of the nation's bonsai artists. But that was always his gift... even more than bonsai... was how to handle people. Many of these younger set could learn a thing or ten from his legacy.

V

I agree, Kimura isn't the beginning or the end of bonsai. But he is the best of the best and has done more for bonsai than any other person to ever live. Hands down he does and knows things that only a few of his lucky students now know. No other masters know or have ever seen.

I am not very well educated on Naka, I know a little about him but thats it. I do agree somewhat with your analogy of him to Kennedy. For American bonsai that is very sad and we as a whole need to realize he is gone and move on.....become better and let his legacy move on. If we don't do that then we will continue to staginate.

 

[milehigh_7]

... I make this statement based on the fact of his training, more years than anyone in the US, graduated from Salvatore Liporace bonsai academy and 4 years with Master Kimura. (4 years with Kimura is worth 10+ yrs with any other master!) ...

Jason have you ever been to Grad school and spent much time with PhDs? If you had you could have observed that much training does not equate to personal ability. Further, you would know that not all who self aggrandize deserve the praise being heaped upon them.

 

[milehigh_7]

I agree, Kimura isn't the beginning or the end of bonsai. But he is the best of the best and has done more for bonsai than any other person to ever live. Hands down he does and knows things that only a few of his lucky students now know. No other masters know or have ever seen...

WOW Jason! Given to hyperbole? That is one large statement!

 

[greerhw]

Kimura is not the begining and the end of bonsai... in fact - no one is. For our country, it's kind of like Kennedy... it was over when Naka died... that idea that one person could unify/shape the majority of the nation's bonsai artists. But that was always his gift... even more than bonsai... was how to handle people. Many of these younger set could learn a thing or ten from his legacy.

V

I'm afaid I will have to disagree. Your painting with a wide brush. As far as the Japanese art of bonsai, no one can touch Kimura.

keep it green,
Harry

 

[october]

I'll throw a hat...not mine...lol...but a hat in the ring..as far as time in and in certain areas, such as shohin... Suthin Sukosolvisit (lives in America) is considered, by those who have been fortunate enough to witness his skill, one of the better masters. He is considered to be without equal as far as shohin bonsai in the states. He has been a bonsai artist for 40+ years...

He is a very humble and quiet person from my dealings with him..

Sometimes, it is the quiet ones,, or the dark horses, so to speak, that come out of nowhere that absolutely astound and amaze and make you think.. Wow,,,How did I miss this guy..

I am not comparing one master to another.. I think they are all great contributors to bonsai.. I just wanted to share soemone's work that some people might not have seen before..

Here is some of his work...

 

[snobird]

"Kimura is not the beginning and the end of bonsai" - thats quite an understatement! He is the standard against which all other bonsai masters are measured. He is like a Da Vinci of bonsai that has brought about a whole new outlook to the art. Root splitting and curling up, cutting trees in parts and making clumps out of it, inverting trees, bending thick old trunks and the list is endless. Surely one day another Kimura will come along but for now he is it.
By getting Marco's services you are basically hearing the voice and insight of Kimura in (Italian - haha but good) English for less than you pay for the man himself.
When I was into bonsai for a few years I thought I knew it all. Today I just consider myself the eternal student because there is always something new to learn.

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

I'm afaid I will have to disagree. Your painting with a wide brush. As far as the Japanese art of bonsai, no one can touch Kimura.

keep it green,
Harry

Dear friend... I don't think I'm the one with the wide brush... There are a number of bonsai master's in Japan who would also likely disagree with you and Jason as well.

Kimura would likely be the most dramatic... but I will not label him as the best. He has a style that is recognizeable... but there is a subtlety to the work of other Japanese masters I appreciate just as much and sometimes more. The drama and high style of the "Bonsai Magician" is well known... but popularity is not the same as being untouchable. Amusingly, even Jason alludes to the magical qualities of the secrets of his teacher's master. I have no doubt that he would like to be the next one let into those secret rooms where the alchemy takes place...

I love Kimura's work... don't get me wrong. God help me if anyone thinks this is a Kimura bashing post. But I love other works as well that have never known his hand.

Your friend,

V

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

"Kimura is not the beginning and the end of bonsai" - thats quite an understatement! He is the standard against which all other bonsai masters is measured.

I respectfully disagree...

V

 

[clic8991]

While I have only limited experience of Marco through the internet (which basically invalidates my opinion(I am not being sarcastic)), I guess I just don't believe he gets it. No one is questioning his dedication to bonsai, rather only his mass email and some of his responses question people's dedication. I get the humor; it isn't that funny. Presumably the number of Ichiban he wants to sell is greater than the number of people that can dedicate 12 hours of a weekday to bonsai. In this way, his awareness seems to be lacking. For example, on his website he (presumably) portray an "American redneck" with poor teeth, flannel and a love for cheap Busch beer as the "before tree", with a picture of himself, as a caricature of Italian playboy machismo, as the "after tree". I don't object to this from a nationalism standpoint, but from a socio-economic and perhaps most importantly humor stand point. It is difficult to understand how one might make such beautiful trees if they perceive the value of people so superficially. If their is one thing that bonsai, and perhaps the world, needs besides more great trees, it is leaders. While leadership and aspirations at greatness can be exclusive things, they do not have to be. Even the self-proclomation that he is practicing Bonsai "at the highest level" suggests a certain myopia; Has he reached the pinnacle of bonsai? I mean, he has a VIP area complete with a "Marco Bouncer" on his website; is this the kind of class-based bonsai culture that should be promoted. In the end I don't care, I think the interplay between perception and reality and the "double edged" nature of the internet is interesting.

Finally, All I am saying is next time consider knocking 15 dollars off the price and going without the velvet lined case, professionally designed website, and marketing photos. This being said, if something as trivial as my perceived attitude of the creator prevents me using the right tool for the job, this is my problem.

 

[JasonG]

Dear friend... I don't think I'm the one with the wide brush... There are a number of bonsai master's in Japan who would also likely disagree with you and Jason as well.

Kimura would likely be the most dramatic... but I will not label him as the best. He has a style that is recognizeable... but there is a subtlety to the work of other Japanese masters I appreciate just as much and sometimes more. The drama and high style of the "Bonsai Magician" is well known... but popularity is not the same as being untouchable. Amusingly, even Jason alludes to the magical qualities of the secrets of his teacher's master. I have no doubt that he would like to be the next one let into those secret rooms where the alchemy takes place...

I love Kimura's work... don't get me wrong. God help me if anyone thinks this is a Kimura bashing post. But I love other works as well that have never known his hand.

Your friend,

V

If you were exposed to that level of thought when it comes to trees and what can be done then you would understand I think. I along with Japan and the rest of the bonsai world felt this way about Kimura long before Ryan or Marco came around.

The "Magician" wasn't the styling but the aftercare it took to keep them alive!

Anyways, I am done with this...people are free to think what they want.....

Time will tell and results will speak for themselves.

Hasta La Bye Bye!!!

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

As my very amusing husband just mumbled... the secret among great bonsai artists is that they don't turn lead into gold... they just use gold. (think trees)

In other words the magic is in the material. And yes... Kimura is a glorious technician, I would agree he can likely grow anything he wants. I am not trying to annoy you or any other fan Jason, in fact I am a fan... my point is only that we would be at a greater loss to believe that all the pegs are not pegs unless they fit that one hole... or are measured as less beside it.

If we did not have the work of other other masters doing the things they are glorious at... Suthin with his shohin... Kobayashi with his sublime subtlety... Suzuki's delicacy of layers and form... Boon who could also likely turn a broomstick into art... Walter with his naturalistic style... the list could go on and on... then we would all be the poorer.

I totally respect that you are very excited about what you are learning... I hope it profits you and by eventual extension the community very much... I'm not down on what you are trying to create in your corner of the bonsai world... if it makes bonsai more popular or accessible... then more power to it. Try and keep it in perspective though... no one has a corner on the art. That's the only point I've been trying to make.

Kindest regards as ever,

Victrinia

 

[greerhw]

As my very amusing husband just mumbled... the secret among great bonsai artists is that they don't turn lead into gold... they just use gold. (think trees)

In other words the magic is in the material. And yes... Kimura is a glorious technician, I would agree he can likely grow anything he wants. I am not trying to annoy you or any other fan Jason, in fact I am a fan... my point is only that we would be at a greater loss to believe that all the pegs are not pegs unless they fit that one hole... or are measured as less beside it.

If we did not have the work of other other masters doing the things they are glorious at... Suthin with his shohin... Kobayashi with his sublime subtlety... Suzuki's delicacy of layers and form... Boon who could also likely turn a broomstick into art... Walter with his naturalistic style... the list could go on and on... then we would all be the poorer.

I totally respect that you are very excited about what you are learning... I hope it profits you and by eventual extension the community very much... I'm not down on what you are trying to create in your corner of the bonsai world... if it makes bonsai more popular or accessible... then more power to it. Try and keep it in perspective though... no one has a corner on the art. That's the only point I've been trying to make.

Kindest regards as ever,

Victrinia

I do bonsai just for my self and no one else, I show my trees in my clubs show and thats it, the rest of the time is spend enjoying what I have, any one near me is more than welcome to come for a visit and share a brewskie and talk bonsai till we pass out. That's my hobbie in a nut shell.


keep it green,
Harry

 

[mcpesq817]

Hey Bonsainut, I think we need a smiley with a brown nose...

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

I do bonsai just for my self and no one else, I show my trees in my clubs show and thats it, the rest of the time is spend enjoying what I have, any one near me is more than welcome to come for a visit and share a brewskie and talk bonsai till we pass out. That's my hobbie in a nut shell.


keep it green,
Harry

In all honesty Harry... that is a noble calling if ever I heard one. It means your passion is rooted in the happiness that the art can bring, I share that reason. I would be only too happy to talk trees 'til we passed out... but I am a vodka kind of girl... so I might beat you under the trees.

Just no watering until I wake up... of any sort.

V

 

[mcpesq817]

Just no watering until I wake up... of any sort.

V

Now that was funny!

 

[BUBBAFRGA]

I'll throw a hat...not mine...lol...but a hat in the ring..as far as time in and in certain areas, such as shohin... Suthin Sukosolvisit (lives in America) is considered, by those who have been fortunate enough to witness his skill, one of the better masters. He is considered to be without equal as far as shohin bonsai in the states. He has been a bonsai artist for 40+ years...

He is a very humble and quiet person from my dealings with him..

Sometimes, it is the quiet ones,, or the dark horses, so to speak, that come out of nowhere that absolutely astound and amaze and make you think.. Wow,,,How did I miss this guy..

I am not comparing one master to another.. I think they are all great contributors to bonsai.. I just wanted to share soemone's work that some people might not have seen before..

Here is some of his work...

I would agree....I spent two 1/2 days around him in January at our club show during demos and workshops he did. Great person, artist and master. He had one of Marcos tools and let everyone handle it and use it. Suthin said same thing everyone on here has said. Its a nice tool and does most what Marco says it does but it does cost.....he said his friend marco sent him one to promote for him .....lol.

 

[DaveG]

Hey Bonsainut, I think we need a smiley with a brown nose...

I think we need a new member status called Net Bonsai Wanker. I even have a candidate in mind for it.

 

[BUBBAFRGA]

i got the same email....read it, laughed and then deleted it and went on with mys business.....