Are uneven bonsai pots common?

[rockm]

THis appears to me to be a new Chinese production pot. It shouldn't wobble. I'd contact the seller and complain--get my money back. $250 is pretty steep for a pot like this...

 

[Dav4]

I have two or three pots with a bit of wobble/wonkiness. They're all at least 100 years old- read that as collectible-, and I have a slightly wonky one by deceased Japanese potter Ichiyo, but his work was often defined by it's wonk and his work is highly sought after/collectible. Modern pots shouldn't be wonky and any wonk present should be disclosed and appropriately discounted if put up for sale, assuming the wonk isn't part of the design.

 

[Pitoon]

As a potter myself, I strive for perfection. I'm not a fan of nanban pots. The OCD in me doesn't allow for pots waving high to me, pots that go severely out of round, or pots that wobble. Sometimes pots can be corrected after the bisque firing. Sometimes pots can be corrected after the mature/glaze firing. There's a lot that can happen to pots within the kiln at such high temperatures. Some things we can control up to a point.....some things are out of our hands. Pots with more that three feet can have wobbling issues because of how the clay shrinks while drying and when firing. The best time to correct that would be right after the bisque fire............but you as the buyer, you shouldn't have to correct a pot.

Nothing in this world is perfect, so it's unreasonable to expect a pot to be perfect. If the slight imperfection is not up to your standards, I would return it.

As @rockm already mentioned it looks as a production pot. There's probably a gazzilion others out there.......maybe with more issues than the one you have on hand right now.

 

[rockm]

I have two or three pots with a bit of wobble/wonkiness. They're all at least 100 years old- read that as collectible-, and I have a slightly wonky one by deceased Japanese potter Ichiyo, but his work was often defined by it's wonk and his work is highly sought after/collectible. Modern pots shouldn't be wonky and any wonk present should be disclosed and appropriately discounted if put up for sale, assuming the wonk isn't part of the design

If the pot isn't handmade, there shouldn't be a wobble. Handmade can SOMETIMES produce pots that wobble--100-150 year-old Nakawatari Chinese pots or older Kowatari pots have wobble, but they're very old and that comes with the territory-like electrical problems in an old house.

In a new production pot like this one, it shouldn't be an issue. It's likely had minimal human hands on it--at least compared to a slab-built, or thrown handmade pot.

FWIW, the larger the pot, the bigger this issue becomes. I have a 24" nanban pot commissioned from Bryan Albright a long time ago. He had to make the pot three times from scratch because of warping and firing issues. He lost money on the final pot.

 

[Adair M]

Let's read it again together!



"You", meaning the OP or reader, is specifically not me.
And "we", meaning me only as I am part of the group, but more you, cuz I don't accept bald spots or use JBP.....so.

The point about the slab is that ...

Well, people are definitely hiding 3 wheeling pots.

Some people hide more personal problems!
But reveal them in these responses!

Sorce

Sorce, you began your post talking from the potters point of view. “We do our best to dry the pots…”. So, when you say “we” it infers that you are speaking for yourself and other potters. Then you go on to talk about hiding something, a flaw I suppose, “like a bald spot in a JBP. We are.” Who is that “we”, if not you and your fellow potters?

You’re trying to say that the “we” is now the buyer? And the buyer is trying to hide the fault in the pot?

I mean, your post makes no sense! I’m sure that you thought you were conveying some deep thoughts… but it came out as non-sense. Perhaps you should proof read what you post before hitting that “post reply” button. I do. And I often find I made some error I should fix before it gets posted.

 

[Pitoon]

I think if someone is trying to hide a flaw they personally have some low standards. Glaze can 'hide' only so much.

 

[Eckhoffw]

Like anything, if the product is flawed.
you should have the option to return it.
Just return it. It wasn’t a cheeeeeeap production pot (which are commonly warped in my experience).
A one of a kind art piece is an exception. This is not one.

 

[Joe Dupre']

There's a thing in manufacturing of any type of product called allowable tolerance. Parts are almost never EXACTLY to specs. A pot made of natural materials and fired at ridiculous temperatures would be expected to have some kind of slight deviation from spec. I would just rub the pot over a piece of sandpaper on the flattest surface you can find. And that "flat" surface is probably not nearly as flat as you think.

 

[LittleDingus]

Sorce, you began your post talking from the potters point of view. “We do our best to dry the pots…”. So, when you say “we” it infers that you are speaking for yourself and other potters. Then you go on to talk about hiding something, a flaw I suppose, “like a bald spot in a JBP. We are.” Who is that “we”, if not you and your fellow potters?

You’re trying to say that the “we” is now the buyer? And the buyer is trying to hide the fault in the pot?

I mean, your post makes no sense! I’m sure that you thought you were conveying some deep thoughts… but it came out as non-sense. Perhaps you should proof read what you post before hitting that “post reply” button. I do. And I often find I made some error I should fix before it gets posted.

It's no secret I own a number of @sorce pots. I can say that many of them wobble...or sag. Personally, I'm fine with that because some of them were advertized "seconds" and some were "gift with purchase" and the ones I intended to spend money on are quirky in a way I greatly enjoy even if they are less than perfect. A little soft clay/putty and the wobble is hidden enough for me.

But I also view purchasing items from forum members as a way to give back to the community in my way. I know there are professionals here...but there are many more hobbiests. When I buy from a forum member I expect the latter...people participating in a hobby providing hobby quality wares. I'm financially able to support them sometimes...so I do. If they exceed my expectation...great If their items sucks but my purchase keeps them motivated to improve, even better!

When I buy from businesses, I expect professional quality wares. If I am given hobby quality wares, I do feel cheated.

 

[Adair M]

It's no secret I own a number of @sorce pots. I can say that many of them wobble...or sag. Personally, I'm fine with that because some of them were advertized "seconds" and some were "gift with purchase" and the ones I intended to spend money on are quirky in a way I greatly enjoy even if they are less than perfect. A little soft clay/putty and the wobble is hidden enough for me.

But I also view purchasing items from forum members as a way to give back to the community in my way. I know there are professionals here...but there are many more hobbiests. When I buy from a forum member I expect the latter...people participating in a hobby providing hobby quality wares. I'm financially able to support them sometimes...so I do. If they exceed my expectation...great If their items sucks but my purchase keeps them motivated to improve, even better!

When I buy from businesses, I expect professional quality wares. If I am given hobby quality wares, I do feel cheated.

Please note that I did not discuss Sorce’s pots. I was saying that his post in this thread made no sense.

 

[sorce]

If the pot isn't handmade, there shouldn't be a wobble.

I reckon the odds for this go in the other direction. A handmade pot is more likely to have someone caring for it through to grinding a foot down , which I personally don't like, something about the point of "finished" remaining the point of finished, but we...lol, do it anyway.

The point of the whole inarguable, because it's just physics and math, easy to understand beginning of that shelves/firing post is that, even a thick, cast pot, straight after drying, still has 2/3 of it's opportunity left to get a wobble.

The % of shelves straight enough to leave no wobble is low and the number lessens with an increase in size. This is just a fact.

What one is supposed to derive from this information is whatever they choose to derive from this information.

I believe it is a waste to smash a pot with a wobble....
I imagine if we allowed potters to continue to smash pots because we so crave a pot for our tree, there may be no environment in which to raise healthy trees anyway.

..........

If you have a wiggly pot, just store your tables in a humid environment.... eventually the pot won't wobble anymore!

Sorce

 

[rockm]

I reckon the odds for this go in the other direction. A handmade pot is more likely to have someone caring for it through to grinding a foot down , which I personally don't like, something about the point of "finished" remaining the point of finished, but we...lol, do it anyway.

The point of the whole inarguable, because it's just physics and math, easy to understand beginning of that shelves/firing post is that, even a thick, cast pot, straight after drying, still has 2/3 of it's opportunity left to get a wobble.

The % of shelves straight enough to leave no wobble is low and the number lessens with an increase in size. This is just a fact.

What one is supposed to derive from this information is whatever they choose to derive from this information.

I believe it is a waste to smash a pot with a wobble....
I imagine if we allowed potters to continue to smash pots because we so crave a pot for our tree, there may be no environment in which to raise healthy trees anyway.

..........

If you have a wiggly pot, just store your tables in a humid environment.... eventually the pot won't wobble anymore!

Sorce

Nah, not really. What you're saying is mostly bullshit.

Blaming customers for wanting to spend their money on something that is a hassle to use is silly, cynical and mostly bad for business. Some defects are cosmetic and are acceptable, even preferable, but wobble isn't cosmetic. It's functional. It says to me there will be a potential drainage issue with the pot, which could lead to root issues with the tree in it. New pots shouldn't wobble, particularly if you're paying $200 to a supplier who sells one with such a defect without mentioning it.

As for smashing pots, I didn't tell anyone to do that, only to get their money back. Professional potters that I have worked with and bought from aren't satisfied with shrugging their shoulders, saying "well, that's just the way it is sometimes, stick something under it."

You can keep a collection of wobbly pots if you want, but if I'm paying hundreds of dollars for one, I want to know it has that defect and the option to choose another without it. And FWIW, I have bought wobbly pots, but they're antiques and I knew going in about the issue.

 

[penumbra]

If the pot isn't handmade, there shouldn't be a wobble.

You know this is a fallacy.

 

[Clicio]

I while ago a potter made me the same pot three times - I would have gladly taken the first version - because it was not the way he thought it should be.
Most of my pots now I commission to him.
I had a potter calling me saying one of the feet had a small crack behind it after the second kiln; would I wait for another pot, or would I take it with a substantial discount?
I took it, and it doesn't wobble.
Conclusion: I would return that pot to the vendor, if I were you.

 

[rockm]

You know this is a fallacy.

Ok. It's a fallacy. In the end, what difference does it make? A new pot shouldn't wobble,-unless you know about it-before you hand over $200.

 

[sorce]

Blaming customers for wanting to spend their money on something that is a hassle to use is silly,

This was not implied anywhere in what I said, so it is untrue, but if you believe it, sure, mostly what I said was BS.

But like I said, one is allowed to derive from the facts of physics what they must derive.

It is merely my opinion that smashing pots is a waste, hence that "I" in front of the opinion directly following the part of deriving information. Don't know how that gets turned into me saying you told someone to smash a pot, but it's clear with that attitude, nothing can be learned.

If I believed in the dollar I would derive a large 4 footed pot with a good stance is quite factually rare, therefore may cost more than $250. I don't believe they should cost that much, so I wouldn't want to talk about deriving that information.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

The optimist with a wood fetish sees it as one less foot to scratch a table with.

Have that same person a fetish for seesaws and they'll see it a danger to dent the table.

I stay playing on both sides since there can't be a concensus that's not personal.

Sorce

 

[rockm]

This was not implied anywhere in what I said, so it is untrue, but if you believe it, sure, mostly what I said was BS.

But like I said, one is allowed to derive from the facts of physics what they must derive.

It is merely my opinion that smashing pots is a waste, hence that "I" in front of the opinion directly following the part of deriving information. Don't know how that gets turned into me saying you told someone to smash a pot, but it's clear with that attitude, nothing can be learned.

If I believed in the dollar I would derive a large 4 footed pot with a good stance is quite factually rare, therefore may cost more than $250. I don't believe they should cost that much, so I wouldn't want to talk about deriving that information.

Sorce

Now you're just trying to be a victim. Your words imply buyers were being craven in their wish for a pot that sits straight. that it was their fault for not appreciating subpar goods. If not, explain this--it's a head scratcher...:

"imagine if we allowed potters to continue to smash pots because we so crave a pot for our tree, there may be no environment in which to raise healthy trees anyway."

Look, I have no idea WTF you're trying to say. It's all over the freaking map

 

[Pitoon]

Just my curiosity......is this thread spiraling into the abyss?

 

[LittleDingus]

Please note that I did not discuss Sorce’s pots. I was saying that his post in this thread made no sense.

Sorce's post in any thread makes no sense . Sometimes it's entertaining...sometimes it's just sad. I read his posts anyway

I was just pointing out the irony in his post.

I like most of my sorce pots...wobble or no. As long as the man keeps his personal politics restrained to appropriate venues, I have no problem with him or his wares...which I do consider hobby level.