An embarrassing question on lifespan of trees (cuttings)

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Plant cells don't have telomeres, they're different than animal cells.

My point was, plants are not immortal, but compared to a human lifespan, we certainly can treat them like immortals. The lifespan tables are based on functionality, for timber harvest or for decorative landscape use, the "short lived trees" can in fact live hundreds, possibly even thousands of years beyond published "functionality based" lifespan tables.

 

[Bnana]

The life span of trees is partly commercial but also has to do with having to continue to grow to make new phloem. At a certain point that doesn't work anymore, you won't find a 300 year old birch. Live fast, die young is also true for trees. But that's different than in humans.

The HeLa cell line is so popular because it doesn't age (and grows fast), that's very special. It was started from a cervical cancer from Henrietta Lacks (without her permission). These cells have active telomerase during division, therefore the telomeres don't shorten.

 

[leatherback]

you won't find a 300 year old birch

Absolutely agree with the "there is a maximum lifespan". But..

Have you seen this publication?
There is one claim for a stand of birches older than 300. Unconfirmed though..

(PDF) "The oldest scientifically dated living birch tree in the world (outside Kamchatka)."

PDF | Please cite as: Van Bogaert, R. 2010. Recent treeline dynamics in sub-Arctic Sweden - a multi-disciplinary landscape assessment. Chapter 2.2:... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

 

[Bnana]

Had not seen that, it's interesting. But it's pretty atypical for birch and happens where they grows very slowly.

 

[leatherback]

Had not seen that, it's interesting. But it's pretty atypical for birch and happens where they grows very slowly.

It in fact matches pretty much exactly with what you were stating. Your statement made me wonder: What is the oldest known birch, and came across the article. Thought it was cool, as I suspected the 300 was "just a number" and not meant as a specific age.

 

[LittleDingus]

A corollary on this: how does starting from a cutting affect maturity with respect to flowering/fruiting? Or even back budding?

Some trees won't flower until a certain maturity...or will only back bud readily until a certain age. Can cuttings flower/fruit sooner that from seed?

My suspicions on very weak allegorical data is "yes" a cutting from a mature tree can flower immediately even if the species doesn't normally flower until age X. That they don't always is more a reflection of reduced available energy due to having to re-establish. Does anyone have more "solid" experience with this?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Maturity, as in juvenile growth transforming into mature growth, for example beginning to flower regularly, or in pines transitioning from single needles to needle bundles, is a separate phenomena from aging. I don't have references for mechanisms of each, but the mechanisms target different systems. The transition from juvenile growth to mature growth I believe is largely governed by epigenetic control of DNA expression. Senescence, has several different systems coming into play, starting with some epigenetic changes, but also with accumulated damage to DNA. As errors in replicating DNA accumulate, at some point there begin to be effects. I don't have any references in front of me, but it is a complex process.

In a horticultural sense, you will see references say things like Apples take 10 to 20 years to begin flowering from seed, peaches take 5 to 10, and so on. Truth is, these statements are "averages". If you plant 1000 apple seeds, a small number, maybe 1% or 10 out of 1000 will actually begin flowering as early as maybe 5 years from seed. Each year more will flower, by 10 years perhaps 33% will have begun flowering. By 15 years maybe 50% will have begun flowering, At 20 years you might still be waiting for the last 3 % to get around to flowering.

Cuttings, scions grafted onto understock, and air layers will continue flowering if they were taken from a seedling that has already reached maturity. The only wait is for the cutting, or scion, or air layer is to build up enough energy to physically do the flowering and producing fruit.

 

[HorseloverFat]

At some point the plant cell line deteriorates, or accumulates errors in replicating the DNA to the point where the organism is no longer able to form viable seed and or viable pollen. Various estimates, if memory serves me right are that somewhere around 7000 years a cell line (either as a single tree, for example bristlecone pine, or as a colonial organisms, for example 'Pando') will cease to be able to sexually reproduce.

De-LICIOUS!

My processors are pleased! *boop!*