American wisteria as bonsai...almost dwarf compared to what I am used to seeing

[Cadillactaste]

Since I have been researching wisteria. It was brought to my attention of the American Wisteria. Which I really think would make a nice bonsai...bloom not as large or having the wow factor. The photos I see...are smaller leaves as well. Making it seem dwarfed by comparison...with less finicky blooms.


These photos show how small they are...a hand in the photo gives a good size comparison.

This is a tiny little bloom/racemes

Googled and seen that indeed ones have chose to use this variety as bonsai.

I do believe I have this variety recently bought as a trained tree from. I went and measured the spent racemes stems...they ranged from 2"-5" long on the ones I measured. That said...how do I go about taking the sucker that is at the base of this trained tree? I am seriously considering bonsai in years to come. It might be a fun project to start is what I am thinking. With the sucker already having bloom buds on it. Intrigued me...thinking of how late a bloomer and it takes years to get blooms on some wisteria. The 2" spent stems...really intrigued me as well. Like I said...not as big a wow factor...but...sort of cute in it's own right.

 

[DougB]

Thanks for the info. Well worthy of being on the look-out for.

 

[GrimLore]

If the one you have is that you need to do a trunk chop in Spring and toss it in a trainer You would be starting out strong On a more serious note thanks for the information and time.

Grimmy

 

[Cadillactaste]

If the one you have is that you need to do a trunk chop in Spring and toss it in a trainer You would be starting out strong On a more serious note thanks for the information and time.

Grimmy

Tisk Tisk...I wish to keep my ornamental tree now Grimmy! I can only imagine your wife and you planning landscaping on your new property. Lol

Your welcome...for the information Grimmy...I found it intriguing...upon inspection of my own tree finding spent racemes stems...some only 2" long. I thought to myself...how interesting...not what one thinks of when one thinks of wisteria...but, we always talk about not being able to have success with wisteria's leaves and racemes being size appropriate. Just surprised this variety for bonsai isn't looked upon more often. It has more than one bloom cycle...and blooms the first year. Far less finicky than their Asian cousins is what a few sites stated. And considered non-invasive as well. The size of it's leaves...verses my bonsai wisteria's leaves are night and day in size comparison.


Learned from researching a bit...that it must be air layered...since it's not a soft stem cutting. Which...is what I assumed. Considering leaving it awhile longer...since the main tree was just planted. Maybe take it next year...

 

[coh]

Bill Valavanis carries these and has sold quite a few. I bought one a couple of years ago and put it in the ground, could eventually decide to appropriate it for bonsai use. Blooms later (after new growth has extended) in the spring than standard wisterias, then sporadically during the summer. Does not smell at all like standard wisteria. In fact, I find the smell rather unpleasant.

By the way, I'm not convinced that the bonsai in the photo is American wisteria...flower clusters don't look right but maybe there is some variation from one cultivar to another.

Chris

 

[GrimLore]

I have never collected any Wisteria when they are not dormant and so far any I have done did well unless their current owners killed them I have made arrangements to collect another for myself(kind of large) in early May of 2015 and I suspect it will do well too. If your going to air layer it do it around that time as well - it will give the separated layer enough time to get established before the following Winter. All in all they are pretty hard to kill but I try to make decisions in favor of "optimal" treatment of the plant.

Grimmy

 

[Cadillactaste]

Bill Valavanis carries these and has sold quite a few. I bought one a couple of years ago and put it in the ground, could eventually decide to appropriate it for bonsai use. Blooms later (after new growth has extended) in the spring than standard wisterias, then sporadically during the summer. Does not smell at all like standard wisteria. In fact, I find the smell rather unpleasant.

By the way, I'm not convinced that the bonsai in the photo is American wisteria...flower clusters don't look right but maybe there is some variation from one cultivar to another.

Chris

Possibly a Kentucky variety? (The bonsai in the photo) it was tagged as non-invasive. I assumed American...but seen there is another variety that is sometimes tagged the American and is the Kentucky variety. Both non-invasive. Though...I read there are 4 American varieties. But the other photos were of an American Wisteria.

I read the American wisteria had no smell...ugh...rather unpleasant you say... Glad it's on the side of the house where it's more for curb appeal than near the back patio where we spend all our time. Would the scent deter you from wishing to make it bonsai?

Edit: Do you know the variety of American Wisteria you have? Again...I read that their are four of them...

 

[GrimLore]

Not being odiferous has some advantages in that it would draw less bugs and birds. We keep that in mind at our place as I do not want large bee and bird magnets. As is the Cherry tree is an ample natural bird feeder. It is funny you mentioned me and the Wife deciding on landscape plants - we are having the small front yard stripped with a backhoe in the Spring. I chopped and will pull the existing Azaleas at her request along with a now fifteen foot Yew. She wants me to replace the Yew with an odd project I have been working on Several years at Grandmothers Farm - a rather well "bent" and groomed Norwegian weeping spruce, Hardscape the balance and add a few plants we think will go well with our taste and lifestyle. There was some interesting conversations but we concur

Grimmy

 

[barrosinc]

I thought there were only 2 varieties. This looks nice!

 

[coh]

Possibly a Kentucky variety? (The bonsai in the photo) it was tagged as non-invasive. I assumed American...but seen there is another variety that is sometimes tagged the American and is the Kentucky variety. Both non-invasive. Though...I read there are 4 American varieties. But the other photos were of an American Wisteria.

I read the American wisteria had no smell...ugh...rather unpleasant you say... Glad it's on the side of the house where it's more for curb appeal than near the back patio where we spend all our time. Would the scent deter you from wishing to make it bonsai?

Edit: Do you know the variety of American Wisteria you have? Again...I read that their are four of them...

I believe it's wisteria frutescens 'Amethyst Falls'. The scent wouldn't necessarily deter me from using it as a bonsai, nor from using it in the landscape. It's not like standard wisterias which can fill a whole yard with fragrance. With this one, you really have to get your nose right up to the flowers to detect the scent (at least I do).

Chris

 

[Cadillactaste]

I believe it's wisteria frutescens 'Amethyst Falls'. The scent wouldn't necessarily deter me from using it as a bonsai, nor from using it in the landscape. It's not like standard wisterias which can fill a whole yard with fragrance. With this one, you really have to get your nose right up to the flowers to detect the scent (at least I do).

Chris

Phew! I was worried a bit with my own...I am taking to smelling it now when I am out and about. Does it only have this fragrance while in bloom? I've only bloom buds on it currently. Lol

Would love to see yours in bloom if you have a photo of it. Do you find it a hardy bloomer as I am reading about. As well as this is very likely the tree I bought for landscape's second bloom of the season. It has an abundant of blooms to open soon.

 

[William N. Valavanis]

I've been growing and selling Amethyst Falls American wisteria for several years. Attached is an OLD photo of one that I'm training. It has developed so much more during the past few years. But, I have not taken many photos this spring, so far.

This bonsai is beginning to blossom again and when more flowers open I'll photograph it again.

Bill

 

[William N. Valavanis]

There is another "similar" wisteria which I'm also growing and selling. The common name is Dwarf wisteria, however it is not a true wisteria. The correct botanical name is Millettia japonica. In Japanese it has a couple of common names, one being Blind wisteria because it "never" blossoms.

It it primarily grown and appreciated because of the beautiful wisteria-like foliage. Usually it is displayed in summer to suggest a cool feeling. Today the temperature hit over 90F, tomorrow's forecast too is for over 90F, so I'm looking at my Dwarf wisterias more often.

By the way, Boon has a large specimen which has flowered! I've been growing and studying this species since 1970 and have never seen it blossom. Boon sent me a photo, and now I'm a believer. I also sent the photo to Japan and receive a message that if they had a specimen which flowered, they would be quite rich. But I'm satisfied to just appreciate the beautiful leaves.

I had a larger Dwarf wisteria specimen which continued to fall off a low bench. Last year the trunk broke so I was upset and just let it grow again. Well, a couple of days ago I took the multiple stem "bush" and pruned it, tool some cuttings, wired it and finally potted it in an unglazed container. This is a "fresh" bonsai, so the foliage has not filled in yet.

Bill

 

[Cadillactaste]

Thanks Bill for sharing...looking forward to seeing that photo updated of the Amethyst Falls. Depending on the shade of mine once blooms open, I'll know for certain. (Though it is an ornamental tree) It does have a sucker I am seriously considering air layering at a later point in time. Which...amusingly...also has a few bloom buds on it as well. (Most likely not as surprising to you though.)

 

[William N. Valavanis]

Darlene, Amethyst Falls is not an ornamental tree. It is an ornamental vine, thus producing long vines and usually suckers as well. Usually they can be easily rooted.

Bill

 

[Cadillactaste]

Darlene, Amethyst Falls is not an ornamental tree. It is an ornamental vine, thus producing long vines and usually suckers as well. Usually they can be easily rooted.

Bill

Ahhh you are right there Bill! My mind's eye sees a tree in the yard...though it has been trained. I've got the one sucker...the other variety they had at the nursery had vines along their trained multi trained trunk like a jungle...this one had none. But they also had vines reaching out from the canopy. I would imagine I will end up with that in the canopy with mine at some point. But...still pruning them in March and July? Leaving them run rapid until then? Because I read to pinch off their spent stems...and while at the nursery...the guy pulled a few off. Showing me how it was done...but...assumed it would be done when July came. But maybe I am wrong...

 

[GrimLore]

It is very hard to kill so pruning and such depends on what you want and when only depends on what it will do. Here we are stepping into the 90f string of days so I do not fertilize or work anything except Tropicals.

Grimmy

 

[Cadillactaste]

My wisteria trained tree...is full of blooms. Starting to open up a bit. With many severe storms to pass through our area. I chose to take a photo of the bloom which happens to be the smallest one on the tree,but had started opening to the point I could get a glimpse of color. Much darker than I first thought...a slight scent that actually has a sweetness to it. But very slight.

Curious if it is a different variety than the Amethyst Falls that I assumed was much lighter.

Edit...curious if ones soil and habitat doesn't factor into bloom color...and even fragrances to a point.

 

[GrimLore]

Nice picture Wisteria can get a little confusing as with so many plants. There are about eight species if I recall correct BUT a lot of cultivars. Some of them are listed here http://www.wisteria.it/wisteria-e.htm but I have never looked for a complete list myself. Soil should be free draining on any Wisteria and damp "not" wet(what mine used to prefer). I find they are happy being treated similar to Azalea less the Nitrogen. It is more complicated to figure out what you have then to take care of As with other plants some cultivars may prefer different sun exposure and were most likely made so. I was thinking about the ones I will be collecting there in the Spring while looking at a pot of Poison Ivy - They really have a lot of similar growth traits

Grimmy

 

[ABCarve]

I have an American wisteria in my yard. It blooms after the foliage comes out and rarely does it ever bloom. Buds usually get frosted. They do wonderfully very close to the lake (Erie) as it protects them from the frost. Mine is a collected wild one so it may not parallel yours. The blossoms a very long but are hard to see because of the foliage.