_#1_
Omono
I had 100% success rate that one time when I put like 8 or so cuttings ranging from chop sticks size to pinky size in regular jar of water.
Left them out on the bench where they get direct morning and evening sun too!
Alnus Incana (Grey Alder) #1
- Thread starter Orion_metalhead
- Start date
Left them out on the bench where they get direct morning and evening sun too!
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
End of Year update... Tree is nuts. I love it.
You can see how quick it gains girth. The nebari itself, below the trunk, which is what I'm measuring, is over 1.5". I have had this in a pot it's whole life.
Next year I will be doing some harder cut backs again. I wired a new leader and will be removing that straight trunk section.
I also tossed some of the suckers I pruned off in a pot to try seeing I can get some cuttings to take in winter. If not, I'll try again next year in summer.
Before cleanup:
After clean up and wiring.
Top Down
| YEAR | AGE | WIDTH | HEIGHT |
| 2019 | 0 | 0.43" | 8" |
| 2020 | 1 | 0.53" | 9" |
| 2021 | 2 | 0.64" | 15" |
| 2022 | 3 | 0.85" | 14" |
| 2023 | 4 | 1.06" | 12" |
You can see how quick it gains girth. The nebari itself, below the trunk, which is what I'm measuring, is over 1.5". I have had this in a pot it's whole life.
Next year I will be doing some harder cut backs again. I wired a new leader and will be removing that straight trunk section.
I also tossed some of the suckers I pruned off in a pot to try seeing I can get some cuttings to take in winter. If not, I'll try again next year in summer.
Before cleanup:
After clean up and wiring.
Top Down
Eckhoffw
Masterpiece
Looks awesome! Wicked growers.
My 2 whips I put in the ground this spring have at least tripled in girth.
MaciekA
Shohin
Great thread. Thank you for documenting!
I am surrounded by red alder (alnus rubra) for hours in every direction here including right outside my window and I've got a ravine below my house where they get chewed on by beavers. My collecting group (posse?) has collected about 130 rubra seedlings in the last couple years. I've kept 3 for myself (one medium and two tiny mame size ones), and most of the rest went to Left Coast Bonsai for further development and eventual sale. Wild red alder seedlings are fun to collect around here because if you find a good site with just the right conditions, they can form really nice flat root systems, as well as trunks with really interesting and twisting initial bends. In the sites where I've collected, they have to fight their way through duff and slash while sitting on a rather shallow bed of soil (before hitting a thicker layer just below) and this gives them some nice characteristics for bonsai.
Looking through your pictures, red and grey alder look remarkably similar when leafless. The roots, the bark, the internodes, the buds, branching angles, etc all look quite close. The difference in foliage is the main giveaway (red alder is a lot more ruffles potato chip like) and I would say I prefer the appearance of the grey alder leaves. My teacher has an arizona alder (a. oblongifolia) which is quite a nice species also (in foliage and also mature bark / twig appearance).
Alder is an awesome species. In the PNW, rubra puts on girth insanely fast especially in a greenhouse. I'm very curious how grey alder would compare to red alder if grown side-by-side in the same conditions here. I also wonder how red alder would compare in your climate.
Between myself and my mentor John, we've messed with dozens of red alders, and one thing you should know is that they respond to both complete and partial defoliation very well (especially in the case of John's alders in a greenhouse, the response is outrageous). I can't speak for grey alder, but the species looks extremely similar and seems to have a similar level of leaping vigor in the mid-season, so you may want to think about giving it a try on one of your trees. We've done it to big ones and small ones and they all respond. Your mileages may vary in shorter growing seasons but the response is quite rapid if there is lots of ambient heat. So hopefully that will help build ramification in grey alder as well.
I am surrounded by red alder (alnus rubra) for hours in every direction here including right outside my window and I've got a ravine below my house where they get chewed on by beavers. My collecting group (posse?) has collected about 130 rubra seedlings in the last couple years. I've kept 3 for myself (one medium and two tiny mame size ones), and most of the rest went to Left Coast Bonsai for further development and eventual sale. Wild red alder seedlings are fun to collect around here because if you find a good site with just the right conditions, they can form really nice flat root systems, as well as trunks with really interesting and twisting initial bends. In the sites where I've collected, they have to fight their way through duff and slash while sitting on a rather shallow bed of soil (before hitting a thicker layer just below) and this gives them some nice characteristics for bonsai.
Looking through your pictures, red and grey alder look remarkably similar when leafless. The roots, the bark, the internodes, the buds, branching angles, etc all look quite close. The difference in foliage is the main giveaway (red alder is a lot more ruffles potato chip like) and I would say I prefer the appearance of the grey alder leaves. My teacher has an arizona alder (a. oblongifolia) which is quite a nice species also (in foliage and also mature bark / twig appearance).
Alder is an awesome species. In the PNW, rubra puts on girth insanely fast especially in a greenhouse. I'm very curious how grey alder would compare to red alder if grown side-by-side in the same conditions here. I also wonder how red alder would compare in your climate.
Between myself and my mentor John, we've messed with dozens of red alders, and one thing you should know is that they respond to both complete and partial defoliation very well (especially in the case of John's alders in a greenhouse, the response is outrageous). I can't speak for grey alder, but the species looks extremely similar and seems to have a similar level of leaping vigor in the mid-season, so you may want to think about giving it a try on one of your trees. We've done it to big ones and small ones and they all respond. Your mileages may vary in shorter growing seasons but the response is quite rapid if there is lots of ambient heat. So hopefully that will help build ramification in grey alder as well.
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
That is great info. Considering their ability to back bud and flush multiple times, i doubt defoliation would have negative consequences. One of the reasons im rooting cuttings is so I can experiment with techniques before butchering a nice specimen.
If you have any red alder seedlings/cuttings you can send me, Ill grow side by side here for you. I can send some rooted cuttings next year as well. Happy to exchange when I have. Material.
Their growth ability is crazy. Id like to get some cuttings into grow boxes for a few years and let em go nuts.
If you have any red alder seedlings/cuttings you can send me, Ill grow side by side here for you. I can send some rooted cuttings next year as well. Happy to exchange when I have. Material.
Their growth ability is crazy. Id like to get some cuttings into grow boxes for a few years and let em go nuts.
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
Uncovered it today:
MaciekA
Shohin
All my alders (a. rubra) have just started leafing out over here as of the last couple days. We've had our first sequence of properly warm and nice days for the year (though returning back to PNW postcard cool/misty starting mid-week). Looking forward to keeping up with this thread this year!
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
Starting to bud out
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
Will get some better photos shortly but you can see the tips leafing out.
PerryB
Shohin
Very interesting species and thread. I had not noticed grey alders much but I've known that a few species of Alnus live around here, particularly in wetlands. And then, last week I noticed this deciduous tree in our neighborhood wetlands that had tiny "pine cones" and was leafing out with Alder type leaves...but the trunk is about 10" in diameter and the tree is probably 50 feet tall! Plant ID comes up as Alnus incana .
I'm gonna look for babies under the mother. I'm sure it's too soon to expect these "cones" on your trees?
I'm gonna look for babies under the mother. I'm sure it's too soon to expect these "cones" on your trees?
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
Im not sure how old the tree has to be to get cones, but the seeds I collected for this alder were collected in late fall.
Theres been questions as to exactly which Alder species this is but I still think its a grey alder.
I like alder. They are responsive, hardy, predictable and take well to most techniques Ive tried.
Theres been questions as to exactly which Alder species this is but I still think its a grey alder.
I like alder. They are responsive, hardy, predictable and take well to most techniques Ive tried.
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
Forgot to photo before.. but pretty significant reduction. Took a bunch of cuttings as well since I really like the species.
Also recut this wound:
Also recut this wound:
Eckhoffw
Masterpiece
May I ask what’s your favorite aspect of this species?
Just curious.
The size of the leaves when ground growing.
Just curious.
The size of the leaves when ground growing.
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
Fast growing, leaves do reduce, very hardy, their ability to nitrogen fix means they dont need much fertilizing, back bud very well, they are swamp trees so you cant over water them, really.
In ground I can imagine the leaves being huge but I dont ground grow very fast growing species generally.
In ground I can imagine the leaves being huge but I dont ground grow very fast growing species generally.
MaciekA
Shohin
To this list I'd add that alder responds to leaf reduction / defoliation techniques very willingly. I have defoliated / cut back / wired my main alder for this spring (haven't touched the smaller ones yet) (for future readers: that was done in the second half of May and only after I had good long runners and hardening foliage).
You can defoliate multiple times in a summer (assuming vigor / technique / competency), so you can ramify a canopy very quickly if you have a strong tree and good timing. For me this is a "sporty bonsai" species, i.e. a species that lets you develop trees quickly if you are on top of things. The catch is that due to very high vigor, strong runners, and large leaves on those runners, alder can get away from you quickly if you are trying to grow a very small tree (eg: shohin), so there are caveats. For me this is maybe best grown in a container. In Oregon they wake up early and grow fast so you gotta watch for wire bite-in or thickening going past points of no return (i.e. if you want to have clean cuts and avoid having to close larger wounds).
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
First signs of new buds showing. looks like another week and It will be in it's early summer prime.
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
Looking good! Will have to do some shoot selection as these grow out a little bit more.
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
Fertilized tonight. three baskets of miracle grow organic granular.
Shogun610
Masterpiece
Sell me that alder lol jk
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
Hah. Maybe in a few years!
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