Akadama vs Turface vs Pumice

I wish 8822 was sold here, but no. The locals say thats what sand is for. I have some trees in unrinsed gravel that seems good with nothing else added. The dust holds some water. I water every two or three days and four is no problem. So far, so good. Its about what you can get too, for me anyway. Far from saying gravel is best, but I can say it works for me here in the tropics.
 
The problem with gravel is that it is "sharp". Which means it can pack. When it does that, it makes it hard for roots to penetrate. Instead, think of a jar of marbles. There's lots of air space between the marbles. Roots can penetrate. So can water and air.

Turface packs.

Pine bark packs.

The lava and pumice are more rounded. So is my akadama. It's also important to sieve the ingredients to have a uniform size. Think about this, start with the jar of marbles. Now add a bunch of BBs. They slip in between the marbles, and fill up the air space. It tends to pack the jar of marbles!

That's also the problem with builders gravel and sand. They pack. It's supposed to. Why do you think they can build gravel roads? Because it packs.
 
You lost your marbles!

@heisenberg lava and pumice should be fine....
No need for organic....

I grew trees fine in rocks and dirt.

Sorce
 
Do you think a 50/50 mix of pumice/lava would do fine? Any need to include some organic substrate or just keep well fertilised? My bonsai is a young cypress so needs lots of drainage
Lava is good if needing weight to "anchor" pot to bench but does not hold H2O as well as pumice;). I have used some coarse lava in bottom of a couple of pots just for this and adds drainage as well. Organics do break down and settle in pot as well as clogging drainage. If growing deciduous or trees needing repotted 2 years or less organics can be good but for most conifers, older trees and Yamadori not re potted for several years inorganic is probably better choice.
 
The problem with gravel is that it is "sharp". Which means it can pack. When it does that, it makes it hard for roots to penetrate. Instead, think of a jar of marbles. There's lots of air space between the marbles. Roots can penetrate. So can water and air.

Turface packs.

Pine bark packs.

The lava and pumice are more rounded. So is my akadama. It's also important to sieve the ingredients to have a uniform size. Think about this, start with the jar of marbles. Now add a bunch of BBs. They slip in between the marbles, and fill up the air space. It tends to pack the jar of marbles!

That's also the problem with builders gravel and sand. They pack. It's supposed to. Why do you think they can build gravel roads? Because it packs.
Can you really get 5-10 years out of akadama the way it breaks down for mature conifers that don't need a repot that often? I believe I read that Peter tea says his garden uses 100 percent river sand.
 
5 years, yes.

I haven't been using akadama 10 years, so I don't know.

I Doubt I would ever go more than 5 years between reporting.
 
You better report as often as possible. Don't want to see your face on a milk carton! "Last seen with two japanese black pine bonsai in his possesion"
 
I just bought two bags of Monto clay from Bonsai Jack, I have two bags of lava rock coming from Eastern Leaf Tuesday. I have lost 4 Juniper trees since I started last month. I' hope a mixture of these two with some pine bark dirt and gravel will help. Any advice?
 
I just bought two bags of Monto clay from Bonsai Jack, I have two bags of lava rock coming from Eastern Leaf Tuesday. I have lost 4 Juniper trees since I started last month. I' hope a mixture of these two with some pine bark dirt and gravel will help. Any advice?

What soil were the juniper in and how often did you water?
 
What soil were the juniper in and how often did you water?
For the most part pine bark potting soil and I may have over watered them. I just cut back a twin trunk, where the main trunk was dying off, it too is in the same soil. Thanks for the reply.
 
I've been making my own mix after having akadama break down every winter on me so far. So I use 40 hyuga pumice 40 kiryu 20 pine bark and I mix in a handful of horticultural charcoal that I had in the garage. So far my trees seem to be doing well.
 
For the most part pine bark potting soil and I may have over watered them. I just cut back a twin trunk, where the main trunk was dying off, it too is in the same soil. Thanks for the reply.

Juniper don't like soil to stay too wet.
I would ditch the soil as it will stay too wet.
I would also ditch the gravel as it literally adds nothing to your mix besides weight and making the pot heavier to carry around.

I would try the clay and lava at a 1.5 to 1 ratio and see how it does

I use a 1:1:1 mix of lava, pumice and akadama for juniper because it drains well, and holds enough moisture without being sopping wet. I've watered this mix every day with no issues
 
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Possibly more important than choice of potting media is particle size. Sift your media before use. Eliminate fines, get rid of coarse particles. Throw out anything that goes through window screen. For this reason soil is usually a very poor choice to add to the mix. Fines shorten useful life of potting mix.

Normally, we try not to repot more than every other year. Juniper & most conifers do not want to be repotted more than every other year. Older trees can go 5 or more years between repotting if the media remains free draining. Fines in the mix, potting soil, fine peat will all "plug up" drainage within a year or so. So skip "soil" as part of your mix. 2 : 1 :: pumice : Bark is a useable mix. Bark, Monto clay, pumice in equal parts is another commonly used mix. Key is it needs to be free draining for a number of years. Repotting every spring will set back your junipers development.
 
Juniper don't like soil to stay too wet.
I would ditch the soil as it will stay too wet.
I would also ditch the gravel as it literally adds nothing to your mix besides weight and making the pot heavier to carry around.

I would try the clay and lava at a 1.5 to 1 ratio and see how it does

I use a 1:1:1 mix of lava, pumice and akadama for juniper because it drains well, and holds enough moisture without being sopping wet. I've watered this mix every day with no issues
Thanks for the information, I will give that a try. I'll need to get some pumice and do you think that the montmorillonite clay will be OK to use?
 
I used some screened pumice, black lava, and some Akadama this year (1/3-1/3-1/3) verses the pre-mixed soil from Bonsai Jacks that I have used in the past. Cheaper, yes, but not sure about the Akadama. I think if I screened it, I would loose 1/2 of it as it has some fines (see pictures). Maybe I am buying the wrong brand or is all Akadama that way? It certainly does retain moisture better than anything I have used before and one has to watch watering as the pots with the Akadama mix stay moist a lot longer than the regular Jacks bonsai mix. I did talk to Jack about Akadama. He does not carry it and recommended "Bonsai Block" in it's place. Maybe someone could recommend where I can buy some good screened Akadama?
 

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I think if I screened it, I would loose 1/2 of it as it has some fines (see pictures).
It depends on what size you use for your trees. I know Ryan advises for 1/16"-1/4", which is what you have there. If you sift the fines, you will probably won't lose more than 1-2 cups of fines from that bag. Markyscott here uses 1/4"-3/8", for his mix you will need to buy 2 bags, one small and one medium, then you will have a lot of larger and smaller particles. Probably enough to fill one bag.

I use the same akadama you have, and I rarely lose anything. The fines I sift I use them for cuttings and I sift those through a #20 mesh, so it is just grains and no dust.
 
Thanks for the information, I will give that a try. I'll need to get some pumice and do you think that the montmorillonite clay will be OK to use?

I have never tried it but it apparently is similar to akadama so that is why I recommended the ratio I did. If you got it from Bonsai Jack, it will probably be fine. If you do get pumice then do 1:1:1 lava, pumice, clay.
 
It depends on what size you use for your trees. I know Ryan advises for 1/16"-1/4", which is what you have there. If you sift the fines, you will probably won't lose more than 1-2 cups of fines from that bag. Markyscott here uses 1/4"-3/8", for his mix you will need to buy 2 bags, one small and one medium, then you will have a lot of larger and smaller particles. Probably enough to fill one bag.

I use the same akadama you have, and I rarely lose anything. The fines I sift I use them for cuttings and I sift those through a #20 mesh, so it is just grains and no dust.
Ok and thanks for the info. I am unfamiliar with this product so need to ask questions...so one can buy bags of this in different size particles? Is there just two different sizes, 1/16-1/4" and 1/4-3/8" or more? I live in zone 5-6, 3500' elevation, low humidity, low annual rainfall, and can be -20 to 110F. Which would be best for me in your opinion? What is the difference between hard and soft Akadama? Thanks in advance for answers.
 
Akadama comes in different sizes, I added a picture of the most common sizes. As far as the other questions, I couldn't give you an answer. I live in a 8b zone at half your elevation. I would buy the same brand you have, Double Red Line, as that is one of the few that has been constant from all the reading I have done. That is the one I buy, but it is currently sold out. I buy most of my soil from Jonas, https://store.bonsaitonight.com/collections/bonsai-soil . Ryan, and most people I have seen here uses 1/16-1/14", Ryan removes the 1/16 if the trees need to be slightly dryer, as the smaller the particle, the more water they are capable of retaining because of the volume they occupy in the container.

I suggest you read Scotts thread. https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/introductory-soil-physics.24970/ it will give you a lot more information than anyone could possibly type in a post reply.

akadama.JPG
 
Just a note on several questions that were raised in prior posts. Most of the pumice we have here in the US (not included the bags shipped from Japan) are domestically sourced. As a volcanic rock, there are large deposits of pumice found in California, Oregon, Idaho, New Mexico, and Kansas that produce most of the pumice we have here. Unless there are chemical analyses of Japanese pumice that show it contains minerals not found in US pumice, I'd say stick with domestic pumice produced by US workers!

Regarding the question of Akadama vs Turface vs Oil Dry/kitty litter, there are some definite differences between what each provides to the soil mix. Akadama is a type of Japanese soil. Keep in mind that the islands of Japan have a volcanic origin, so their soils have unique mineral characteristics based upon the types of volcanic rocks that were eroded and created their soils. The same can be said of soils anywhere, they're the result of the erosion of continental and oceanic rocks over geologic time. Wherever the product is mined, the aggregate will generally have chemical and mineralogical differences, some of which may be more beneficial to the plants we grow. Just an FYI, today I did a search of eBay and Etsy and found a numbers of sites that offered what I consider good deals on Akadama as well as soil mixes that contain Akadama. Several of the sellers offered free shipping, so it becomes a bit easier to justify Akadama over other products shen you're not paying a separate shipping charge. And keep in mind, Akadama does slowly disintegrate over time, but the resulting material is still a beneficial part of the potting soil that plants are able to use.

Finally, having had cats for years and having purchased different types of clay kitty litter, you may want to consider starting with a small bag, taking a sample, and adding water to it. I've seen some where the litter has quickly broken down to a sticky clay when water was introduced (generally the cheaper brands). And avoid scoopable litters. There is a reason that they are so easy to scoop, as they clump together in the presence of moisture. A couple of years ago I dumped a pan at the tree line several hundred feet from the house. Six months later I went back and it was like a lump of concrete. So far, the best of the clay litters I've seen is Oil Dry, which does seem to retain its structure over a longer period of time.
 
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