Akadama...My Experience

rockm said:
You've skipped past some things and are making assumptions.

You've only observed seedlings in AK for how long? A year? two? That's not long enough for the AK to break down much and start inhibiting root growth, which can take several years, or less if you're in a cold zone. You can use just about anything to start seeds as long as it stays moist and drains pretty well.
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You seem to be making assumptions yourself.

My seedlings in 4 inch pots of pure akadama have already filled up their pots and will be up potted into bigger pots next year and probably will fill their pots and be up potted again the year after so no I haven’t seen it break down and i wont see it break down until i am ready to slow growth.

if you think thats a waste of money that’s your opinion and you are entitled to it but the results i have seen compared to seedlings in organics or just perlite justify the cost for me.

also the question remains. What do they use for seedlings in japan, and if it is Akadama based mixes are they using it wrong?

I am willing to bet the answer is yes they are using akadama based mixes and no they are not using it wrong.
 
Adam D said:
You seem to be making assumptions yourself.

My seedlings in 4 inch pots of pure akadama have already filled up their pots and will be up potted into bigger pots next year and probably will fill their pots and be up potted again the year after so no I haven’t seen it break down and i wont see it break down until i am ready to slow growth.

if you think thats a waste of money that’s your opinion and you are entitled to it but the results i have seen compared to seedlings in organics or just perlite justify the cost for me.

also the question remains. What do they use for seedlings in japan, and if it is Akadama based mixes are they using it wrong?

I am willing to bet the answer is yes they are using akadama based mixes and no they are not using it wrong.
Click to expand...

The 2018 Six Year Japanese Black Pine Contest

This forum will be for contest participants to track and report on their progress.
www.bonsainut.com www.bonsainut.com
This contest is based on an article from Bonsai Today, translated from a Japanese article from the early 90's, on growing JBP seedlings from scratch... akadama based soils from the beginning if I recall correctly.
 
Adam D said:
You seem to be making assumptions yourself.

My seedlings in 4 inch pots of pure akadama have already filled up their pots and will be up potted into bigger pots next year and probably will fill their pots and be up potted again the year after so no I haven’t seen it break down and i wont see it break down until i am ready to slow growth.

if you think thats a waste of money that’s your opinion and you are entitled to it but the results i have seen compared to seedlings in organics or just perlite justify the cost for me.

also the question remains. What do they use for seedlings in japan, and if it is Akadama based mixes are they using it wrong?

I am willing to bet the answer is yes they are using akadama based mixes and no they are not using it wrong.
Click to expand...
Wow. Defensive huh... YOu just grow seedlings in Akadama or have you used it for larger mature trees over decades? If it's just seedlings, then you're not using it completely. It's strength is that it breaks down to SLOW growth and induce more mature growth habits in trees--that is why it is valued for bonsai. I've not been to Japan to take a peek inside their nursery pots. Have you? My guess is they probably use it there, but then they're not paying international shipping. and can get it by the truckload. Ifthere were a more valid comparison, it would be turface here in the states--produced mostly locally, easily available from many sources more efficient shipping costs. I'd bet what you're growing in Akadama would do similarly in Turface...

You can use Premium gas in your Corolla too, doesn't make it run much better but it costs 40 percent more than regular.
 
rockm said:
If you're using Akadama for seedlings, you're using it wrong...and wasting your money.

bonsaitonight.com

All about akadama - Bonsai Tonight

Akadama is a fundamental component of bonsai soil. It is used throughout Japan as a potting medium for both bonsai and general gardening purposes. More and
bonsaitonight.com bonsaitonight.com
Click to expand...

Within 2 weeks of planting in the akadama, they really came to life with new growth. Not planning to keep them in that soil for more than a couple years. I think they have plenty of time before the akadama breaks down, which would be when the growth becomes hindered, right?

What soil would be better for 8"-16" Japanese maple seedlings? If I'm really slowing their growth, then I'll repot in spring into something better.
 
Wow! I can't believe this is still going on. Call me the Devil's Advocate (my friends and family do) but it seems like this is one long continuation of a discussion that has gone on forever.
And like a car wreck, I keep looking. :rolleyes:
 
rockm said:
Wow. Defensive huh... YOu just grow seedlings in Akadama or have you used it for larger mature trees over decades? If it's just seedlings, then you're not using it completely. It's strength is that it breaks down to SLOW growth and induce more mature growth habits in trees--that is why it is valued for bonsai. I've not been to Japan to take a peek inside their nursery pots. Have you? My guess is they probably use it there, but then they're not paying international shipping. and can get it by the truckload. Ifthere were a more valid comparison, it would be turface here in the states--produced mostly locally, easily available from many sources more efficient shipping costs. I'd bet what you're growing in Akadama would do similarly in Turface...

You can use Premium gas in your Corolla too, doesn't make it run much better but it costs 40 percent more than regular.
Click to expand...

Not defensive at all, just found your comments to be slightly annoying.

I have mature trees and seedling/sapplings in akadama.

turface is a terrible soil component and is nothing like akadama. It stays too wet and forms anemic roots. I bought japanese red pines seedlings from a popular pre bonsai vendor this spring. All the roots were on the outside of the turface and there were no roots in the middle because they were trying to escape. They’re now in colanders in 60% akadama and couldn’t be healthier.
 
rockm said:
I've used it for a few years on a variety of trees, from Tridents to satsuki. Everything does quite well in it. It is not cheap though and it's getting harder to locate as it is bought up quickly
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That’s good information.

Seems like it be easier to get the akadama and pumice (and maybe lava) separately and just mix?

… a side thought.. it might be an idea to add some H. Charcoal or biochar to the mix. This seems to be doing really well for my trees.

Cheers
DSD sends
 
penumbra said:
Wow! I can't believe this is still going on. Call me the Devil's Advocate (my friends and family do) but it seems like this is one long continuation of a discussion that has gone on forever.
And like a car wreck, I keep looking. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Welcome to soil wars 10.0
 
Deep Sea Diver said:
That’s good information.

Seems like it be easier to get the akadama and pumice (and maybe lava) separately and just mix?

… a side thought.. it might be an idea to add some H. Charcoal or biochar to the mix. This seems to be doing really well for my trees.

Cheers
DSD sends
Click to expand...
Yeah, you could do all of the above.
 
Adam D said:
In my case I used it because its what I had on hand when I was transplanting.

But your comment raises a great point. What do they use for seedlings in Japan and if the answer is akadama based mixes are they using that wrong?

All I know is my batch of japanese maple seedling in akadama have much better roots and growth vs non akadama planted seedlings.
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They don't have to pay $50+ for a bag of akadama either. There is nothing wrong with using it for seedlings and propagation, but the growth will be way slower than what you would want for trees in development. If that is what you want, great, but I doubt that is what a lot of people want in the early stages of a bonsai unless it is being created as a mame.
 
Adam D said:
Not defensive at all, just found your comments to be slightly annoying.

I have mature trees and seedling/sapplings in akadama.

turface is a terrible soil component and is nothing like akadama. It stays too wet and forms anemic roots. I bought japanese red pines seedlings from a popular pre bonsai vendor this spring. All the roots were on the outside of the turface and there were no roots in the middle because they were trying to escape. They’re now in colanders in 60% akadama and couldn’t be healthier.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the colander's better ventilation be keeping the akadama from breaking down?
 
Mike Corazzi said:
Wouldn't the colander's better ventilation be keeping the akadama from breaking down?
Click to expand...
not really, the better ventilation just helps it dry out faster. When soil dries out slightly thats when roots can take in oxygen. More oxygen exchange, more root growth. Thats the idea behind colanders.

with that said, you will still see breakdown in colanders depending on many factors including, the individual tree, the frequency of watering, the quality/hardness of the akadama, and freeze\thaw.

The key is to adjust your watering accordingly after breakdown based on the color change of the akadama drying out between waterings.
 
What I'm getting from this thread is that akadama is great for SOME trees, time specific watering, color matching of wet/dry aka, and thermostatically controlled conditions.
🙃
 
After this summer I'm putting akadama back on the list. Dang.. Didn't know drought in the wetlands could last this long. It never has. Three consecutive heatwaves with no rain in between.

Some plants in shallow containers really take beating after beating.
I'd rather go back to overwatering symptoms than the constant verge of death.

I have no stake in this discussion though. No need to convince anyone but myself to do the things I want to do to my plants. You fellas bicker along. :-)
 
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