Advice on Starter Tree

[moved on]

I would be discouraged to try and bonsai a Magnolia tree just by looking at the size of its leaves and flowers.

Fair point. I was just looking out of my window at the Magnolia and thinking the same.

Pyracantha, maple, cotoneaster, potentilla, crab apple are just a few very suitable to bonsai.

The crab apple is an interesting idea. We're got a small crab apple tree in the garden too. I've been meaning to give it a trim. Hmm, lots of food for thought. That's my Saturday sorted anyway!

 

[TN_Jim]

surprised to hear no elm..ask, flag, wait, ask again, collect -best methods

...unless your the hackberry I saw on W. 24 under the overpass growing out of rock, stuck in traffic..city can ask me this winter I suppose

 

[TN_Jim]

Do you need "rooting hormones" to propagate a tree from a cutting? There seems to be uncertainty on the internet ... surprisingly ...

no, but rooting hormones can help depending on species.

 

[moved on]

I'm back from WindyBank Bonsai nursery. What an incredible nursery - if there's a heaven, it's there!

As I anticipated, I came back with trees. They had this amazing Crab Apple tree and it's roots look just like a barred spiral galaxy - it was meant to be - it's an astro-bonsai! No one tell my Mum that I spent more of my PhD grant on Bonsai!



I also got a Japanese Maple sapling - they were only about £5 so I thought it was worth it.



Ken at WindyBank was so helpful. I had lots of questions about growing from cuttings and general bonsai care. We spoke for quite a while. He explained about air layering and showed me some of his cuttings and how they were prepared. He suggested waiting until March next year to take cuttings.

As I don't have a car, I took a tram and 2 buses and had to walk a couple of miles to get there. I got lots of interest from people about the Crab Apple tree - lots of people hadn't heard of Bonsai trees. This child couldn't get their head around it being tree and having tiny apples!

 

[TomB]

Ha, I think we might have been there at the same time - about 3 o'clock? I dropped in to buy some fertiliser. Think we were waiting to pay at the same time. If I'd known it was you I'd have said hello.
Yes, Ken's really helpful - top bloke. Really knows his stuff, and I think his prices are second to none.

 

[moved on]

Ha, I think we might have been there at the same time - about 3 o'clock? I dropped in to buy some fertiliser. Think we were waiting to pay at the same time. If I'd known it was you I'd have said hello.
Yes, Ken's really helpful - top bloke. Really knows his stuff, and I think his prices are second to none.

How funny! Yes, I remember seeing you when I was paying. Small world!

I just love my new trees from there - it's a good lesson for me as I'd been buying my other trees online and the difference in quality and price is just astounding. That gorgeous crab apple only cost £45, which is the same as I've been paying for much less impressive trees online. Just looking at his countless trees, you could really see how much Ken has put into them; all of them were incredible. I will definitely be returning - even if it is a bit of a trek!

 

[Adair M]

Astrophysicist, huh?

Well then, I’ll write this post in a way that you’ll understand...

Working with little seedlings is much like waiting for a star to form from a nebula of dust and gas. Tons of potential, but it takes a long, long time before you get something to fuse.

On the other hand, working with a larger piece of starter stock is like working with a super-giant blue star about to implode! It blows the outer layers off in the supernova explosion, and that inner core is really something special! We do that by taking larger trees, cutting them back, and working with the trunk and possibly a few remaining branches.

About that crabapple...

I can see the attraction for you! It is, however, poor nebari for a bonsai. If it were MY tree, I’d cut off the spiral arms immediately. However, since you like the spiral galaxy look, you can keep them, and it would be a “novelty tree”. Somewhat whimsical. Just know that with those roots, from a “bonsai” perspective they are major, major flaws. But for you, they’re major fun!

 

[moved on]

Oh, super-massive blue super-giant supernova progenitors are a contentious subject! I know some professors who would fight you on the spot for even going there (those old astro-professors can be scary when roused)! Anyway, you're probably better asking a Particle Physicist to explain those weird guys.

Now, if the starter tree is a red super-giant at its iron peak on its fusion evolution, I get what you're saying.

I take your point about the Crab Apple tree. However, since we're on an Astro-theme, I've been studying cold molecular gas dynamics in a galaxy called GAMA31452 recently with long baseline interferometry (which is my area as opposed to stellar evolution!). As galaxies go, he's probably not going to form stable spiral arms and follow the usual evolutionary path to late-type; he's losing ionised and molecular gas through his warped spiral arms. However, his strangeness has ended up opening a whole new line of research - may even get a paper out of him! Originally, he was going to be thrown out of the sample all together - occasionally being unorthodox and a bit dysfunctional works!

 

[moved on]

Just bought a 1 gallon pot for my starter Japanese Maple and some peat moss and perlite mix soil. I've found a good partially shaded area for it to grow. I'll do my first prune and shape when the soil and pot arrive.

 

[Adair M]

Just bought a 1 gallon pot for my starter Japanese Maple and some peat moss and perlite mix soil. I've found a good partially shaded area for it to grow. I'll do my first prune and shape when the soil and pot arrive.

Wait until early next spring to repot the maple.

As for your galaxy, it’s super-massive black hole is probably not large enough to cause enough turbulence to continue to generate star formation.

 

[moved on]

Wait until early next spring to repot the maple.

Alright, thanks for the advice. I'll hold off on the re-pot. At least I'm prepared well in advance!

As for your galaxy, it’s super-massive black hole is probably not large enough to cause enough turbulence to continue to generate star formation.

You don't need AGN (massive black hole) turbulence to drive star-formation - AGNs are mostly a hindrance as they tend to disrupt molecular gas reservoirs required for new star-formation. In fact, AGN feedback drives out the molecular gas, causing AGN-hosting galaxies to become prematurely dormant and non-star-forming. Actually, none of the galaxies in my current sample have AGNs for this reason; they normally appear in more massive, older galaxies. AGN-hosting galaxies, by nature, have low star-formation rates.

The star/galaxy analogies to one side, I think I get your message. I will take it on board.

 

[Adair M]

Alright, thanks for the advice. I'll hold off on the re-pot. At least I'm prepared well in advance!


You don't need AGN (massive black hole) turbulence to drive star-formation - AGNs are mostly a hindrance as they tend to disrupt molecular gas reservoirs required for new star-formation. In fact, AGN feedback drives out the molecular gas, causing AGN-hosting galaxies to become prematurely dormant and non-star-forming. Actually, none of the galaxies in my current sample have AGNs for this reason; they normally appear in more massive, older galaxies. AGN-hosting galaxies, by nature, have low star-formation rates.

The star/galaxy analogies to one side, I think I get your message. I will take it on board.

LOL!!!

I’m no Astro-physicist. Although I try to keep up.

Andromeda has a Supermassive black hole, and appears to have lots of star formation going on...

I’ll leave the Cosmology to you!

The key (or I should say, one of the keys to success with bonsai is doing things at the right time. Repotting is one of those things. Repot at the right time, and the tree doesn’t miss a beat. Repot at the wrong time, and it could be fatal!

 

[Paulpash]

You should really like discovering how to make a great bonsai. It's like the quest to find dark matter - very elusive but when found it will bind together everything you do.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Astro, the tendency towards detail you offer in discussing space and the cosmos will bode well for you in bonsai. Approach the care side scientifically and look at the artistic side a little later... not worrying about the care and maintenance elements will allow you to be as creative as you want.

Right now, i would 100% read the soil tutorial written by @markyscott. Its essential to understand why we use what in our soils and how to visualize what water is doing within the pot. Youll like the science of it!!

Introductory Soil Physics

Here is the second resource developed from the thread "Introductory Soil Physics". It is a document explaining how the important physical properties in soil and substrates combine to control the amount of air and water in the pore space of soils...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[moved on]

Andromeda has a Supermassive black hole, and appears to have lots of star formation going on...

Andromeda has a fairly low star formation rate; roughly 0.4 solar masses a year of new stars. The galaxies I study can have star formation rates of over 100 times that! It looks very luminous because it's big and has a lot of older stars. M31 is experiencing a process called "quenching", most likely due to prolonged feedback from its AGN- the reasons why this happens in galaxies is a hot topic in the Astro-world at the moment!

You should really like discovering how to make a great bonsai. It's like the quest to find dark matter - very elusive but when found it will bind together everything you do.

Very true! Although, if I figured out Dark Matter, I'd be significantly more rich!

 

[moved on]

Approach the care side scientifically and look at the artistic side a little later... not worrying about the care and maintenance elements will allow you to be as creative as you want.

Sound advice. I used to be an Art student before I turned to Physics and sometimes that side takes over. However, I spend my nearly my entire life being scrupulous nowadays, occasionally I don't mind letting that slip in my free time - it's good for the soul!

Right now, i would 100% read the soil tutorial written by @markyscott. Its essential to understand why we use what in our soils and how to visualize what water is doing within the pot. Youll like the science of it!!

Thanks for this. Looks really interesting.

I've been investigating soil mixes a lot and have seen with my bonsai how much it can affect them. I did an experiment with the soil mix in my Jade plant which uses a gritty soil for cacti mixed with pumice and with the soil in my Chinese Sweet Plum which is a bit more water retaining with larger average grain sizes. I measured the height of the moisture levels in both soils over a few days with a wooden stick which I marked - the gritty Jade soil had a larger moisture zone than the larger grain Chinese Sweet Plum soil, which proves the point made in the article.

I'm very curious about the effect of drainage layers. I sort of thought this through as I use the material in the drainage layer as part of the mix in the upper layers of the soil mix. Harsh interfaces always cause accumulation - a bit like a capacitor.

For most of my trees I've found that Heron's bonsai mixes are very good - a mix of peat, bark and kyodama. I put in a little extra akadama for the trees that dry out very quickly.

I've only been seriously "bonsaiing" for less than 4 months; before I was a more passive owner. I've got a lot to learn!

 

[GGB]

I love astrophysics! I’m a Libra, what are you?

 

[Adair M]

Continue researching soil mixes.

In my opinion, peat and bark have no place in a bonsai pot. I use strictly inorganic soil, with organic fertilizer.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Im only in my second growing season, so im nowhere near as knowledgeable as others on the site. My goal this year was to find a soil mix I can use for my trees that was not expensive.

Next year im focusing on honing in fertilization. I want to move to organic ferts so im going to experiment with that.

 

[Paulpash]

I'd steer clear of Herons if I were you - it's very overpriced. It's a shame you don't have a car - Heathrow Show is always a good event and in SE London, Lee Verhorevoort Bonsai (https://www.lvbonsai.co.uk) hasgood stock at reasonable prices.