Acer Palmatum 'Beni-Chidori'

[ConorDash]

Hello All.

This is a new addition for me. I instantly loved the trunk, rugged, great nebari and fat base on it. Pretty much starting from scratch with the thin initial branches but has a good bit of growth to build vigour, and the branches are in good places, initial wire and styling put on by @BobbyLane whom it was purchased from.
Unfortunately had a rocky start with me, through no ones fault at all, but the leader broke off so am hoping for some budding there to create a new one, if not, will do something else.

DSC_1299 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_1300 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_1302 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
[Taken 9th March]

DSC_1576 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_1574 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_1573 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
[Taken 7th April 2020]​

Plans for this currently are to let it grow, probably for the whole season. Perhaps mid summer or 6+ weeks time, ill remove a few unnecessary branches and wire existing, but just needs some growing for now. As a red species of Maple, they are noticeably less vigorous growers (due to the reg pigment) so I am taking that in to consideration.

Let me know if you have any advice for the species, or any thoughts about its styling. Im open to ideas

Thank you

 

[BobbyLane]

the second branch on the right hand side, needs to come up so it isnt crossing the first one. probably got moved accidentally. so merely bring it up carefully as its still a young branch.

in regards to styling. find a style what you like and hone it, put a stamp on it.
at this stage i would just focus on having the branch ends rise up like they currently are and build up some vigour and branch thickening. they will develop quicker with the branch ends reaching up and out to the light and for me in regards to deciduous they look aesthetically better with ascending branches.

this chap knows a bit about maples, he's streaming now on YT

 

[Carol 83]

You're lucky to be so close to @BobbyLane to have access to such nice material.

 

[ConorDash]

Thanks both .

 

[ConorDash]

An update on this maple. It had a bit of a problem with discolouration in some leaves, it spread a fair bit but for the most part its ok, I have not seen it for a while now, having removed the leaves.
Its left it a little unsightly + as a maple, no matter how well I move it around, water it, shield from wind.. it gets unsightly but I've come to learn to just accept this.
Leaves turning to green now. Will just let it strong, build strength due to the unknown issue it had + it needs strong any way.

DSC_1806 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_1805 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

 

[ConorDash]

Can see some of the rough looking leaves but for most part, its good. Some very perfect looking little new leaves at the tips too, very good sign for me.

DSC_1821 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_1820 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_1819 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_1818 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

 

[ConorDash]

Much like other Maples, this one didn't do so well this year, but not so bad and it was left to grow too. Removed branches this autumn that were not needed, also plan to chop it too, as I dont like the straight section of the top of the trunk + its become ugly at the top, and inverse.

Before:
DSC_2616 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_2618 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

After:
DSC_2620 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_2633 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_2627 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

Not overly happy with the tree at the moment, will get better hopefully.. I am happy with my wiring, neat and lower branches going down, then up and out.
Another tree I think I need to look at again and see if I should cut back further. Some lower were left intentionally a bit longer than normal, so they can thicken up to be more in balance, but not fully left unpruned. Im happy to prune back slightly, so they will still thicken whilst building ramification.
Top branches were left mostly, as it is being chopped in late Spring, better to allow them to leaf out and give the tree more vigour before beheading.

 

[ConorDash]

Ways to go before I am happy with this tree, I dont like it right now. Needs some better work than I have been doing.
In Spring, once leaves have hardened off, I'll remove the top of it to create a better apex.

DSC_2994 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_2997 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_2998 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

Can't argue with the foliage though... pretty.

 

[ConorDash]

Another year, another problem for a Japanese maple.. this is actually the exact same thing as last year.

it looks more fungal than pest, as a pest would usually show small areas of discolour, whereas this is discolouration spreading from an edge and the area follows the shape of the leaf, not a round bite like area..

I’ll treat with a good 2-1 fungicide (Rose clear) for now. It was sprayed with LS beginning of winter and another when buss

The commonality from last year is that it’s still in the same akadama i got it in. I should have repotted it but just didn’t get time. I’m thinking I might give it a delicate repot/slip pot this weekend. I think the akadama is quite broken down now, it needs it. I’ll remove as much akadama without damaging roots.

Aside from that, if anyone has some experience of this type of damage or thoughts, please feel free to share.
@0soyoung i know you like this stuff .

I don’t believe I’ll find out what it is, if it’s balance of water and oxygen were better, it’d be a healthier tree and we wouldn’t experience these problems to begin with.

 

[ajm55555]

I had and I'm having all kinds of problems with fungus on Japanese maples, Conor. I think it's their worst enemy.
I think some climate zones are more susceptible to bringing up this problem, for example Central Europe.
Some cultivars are weaker too, especially the ones red in Spring (Deshojo, etc.)
What I learned is:

• disinfect the tools and repeat
• don't prune when it's wet/raining
• seal all cuts
• must regularly use anti-fungal

I'm now wondering what to do when you root prune. Sealing the cuts doesn't seem practical but probably spraying with a systemic anti-fungal before adding the soil is a must.
I don't know what the others think.

I think you're doing all you can. Maybe protect it from the rain and don't over water.
I had similar burns after late frost but I'm not sure it's your case.
Good luck!

 

[Velodog2]

Did you say you had other maples with similar problems? Regardless, I’ve had something like this in the past when I was still watering with high alkalinity well water. I switched to just collected rain water and not seen it since. I used to lose a lot of trees.

I also agree that top section must go. Then it will be a great maple!

 

[ConorDash]

I had and I'm having all kinds of problems with fungus on Japanese maples, Conor. I think it's their worst enemy.
I think some climate zones are more susceptible to bringing up this problem, for example Central Europe.
Some cultivars are weaker too, especially the ones red in Spring (Deshojo, etc.)
What I learned is:

• disinfect the tools and repeat
• don't prune when it's wet/raining
• seal all cuts
• must regularly use anti-fungal

I'm now wondering what to do when you root prune. Sealing the cuts doesn't seem practical but probably spraying with a systemic anti-fungal before adding the soil is a must.
I don't know what the others think.

I think you're doing all you can. Maybe protect it from the rain and don't over water.
I had similar burns after late frost but I'm not sure it's your case.
Good luck!

Appreciate the reply. All these steps I follow . Disinfect the tools before and after every single tree is pruned.. annoying but I do not want any variables!
Well, I've previously sealed some cuts in the root system but always felt it was pointless. The soil stays so moist all the time, sealing them seems useless. Either way, I would not be root pruning this, due to the repoting in leaf (which Im sure most people will shudder at the thought of).

Are you suggesting spraying with fungicide, the roots? I've never heard of that before and probably would like the idea of that..! Or you perhaps mean a drench wash on the roots. I've done that before for fighting weevils.

I put my maples on a wooden pallet on the ground now, in a corner, behind my bench. Gets sun light but good amount of shade, out of the wind. Its currently right next to a number of other maples, might separate it, in case its possible for this problem to spread. All of my maples are red in Spring lol, unfortunately!

Did you say you had other maples with similar problems? Regardless, I’ve had something like this in the past when I was still watering with high alkalinity well water. I switched to just collected rain water and not seen it since. I used to lose a lot of trees.

I also agree that top section must go. Then it will be a great maple!

Hello,
No, this maple had this same problem last season. The others have not. I use tap water which is classed as VERY HARD. So yes, it would be high alkalinity. Hmm I do not have a method for rain water at the moment. I did before I moved, and am fairly sure I used rain water all of last year, and still saw the same problem. But interesting anyway, thanks.
Yes top section will, I just want to see some strength in the tree so I know it is energy positive, to do that work! Which is not going well lol

 

[Bnana]

If you need to use fungicides regularly your either doing something wrong or the species is not suitable for your location.
Japanese maples are pretty tough.

 

[ajm55555]

Are you suggesting spraying with fungicide, the roots? I've never heard of that before and probably would like the idea of that..!

Just wondering. Those are cuts where a fungus can enter the plant after all...
I had maples just getting black spots on the bark (dead cambium) after a full repot or even not, in Spring. It spreads killing branches and eventually the tree. For sure it was dead roots not providing water to the upper part but the cause was not too much water or frost or a bad winter. I think it's a fungus (Pseudomonas? other ones?) killing them. I'm extra careful now.

All of my maples are red in Spring lol, unfortunately!

They're the best ones

 

[Gustavo Martins]

Well. I got similar problems with tridents but not with A. palmatum. It should be the other way around I suppose. Go figure. Anyways, it looks like fungus for sure. Check Phloma. I linked a video about this in a discussion about fungus on tridents here in the forum not too long ago. If tou can’t find it let me know and I will try to find that video again.

 

[Gustavo Martins]

For what’s it’s worth, it could also be anthracnose ??

 

[ConorDash]

If you need to use fungicides regularly your either doing something wrong or the species is not suitable for your location.
Japanese maples are pretty tough.

Agreed. I do not use them regularly. I did the winter washes and had no plans to use any this year, I wanted the strength of the tree and the right water to oxygen balance, keeping problems at bay.

But, its a Japanese maple.. they are just too damn delicate..

Just wondering. Those are cuts where a fungus can enter the plant after all...
I had maples just getting black spots on the bark (dead cambium) after a full repot or even not, in Spring. It spreads killing branches and eventually the tree. For sure it was dead roots not providing water to the upper part but the cause was not too much water or frost or a bad winter. I think it's a fungus (Pseudomonas? other ones?) killing them. I'm extra careful now.

They're the best ones

Pretty to look at but id prefer some trident or field maples. These are my last Japanese Maples, I dont plan on buying any others for a very long time.

For what’s it’s worth, it could also be anthracnose ??

Thanks ill check out Phloma. I did have a look through a number of problems that affect maples but this discolouration is quite unique looking, so didnt find it.
I looked at Anthracnose, it didnt quite look like it but its not far off. The colour of the leaves, makes the discolouration appear differently, so perhaps it may be compared to pics I see online.

 

[Dav4]

Just wondering. Those are cuts where a fungus can enter the plant after all...
I had maples just getting black spots on the bark (dead cambium) after a full repot or even not, in Spring. It spreads killing branches and eventually the tree. For sure it was dead roots not providing water to the upper part but the cause was not too much water or frost or a bad winter. I think it's a fungus (Pseudomonas? other ones?) killing them. I'm extra careful now.

They're the best ones

That sounds like pseudomonas syringae, a bacterial infection. Repotting and working the roots on a maple in cool wet weather during spring seems like the time this bacterial organism can flourish… I’ve never had a tree survive.

 

[0soyoung]

I only like this stuff, @ConorDash, because I just like finding things out - now, especially things with trees.

For years I had trouble with the first flush of shin deshojo that occurred on air layers from the previous season and on the mother tree in my landscape. I observed that three other shin deshojos planted a few blocks away from me also had the same problem. There has been no trace of this trouble for two years now (with mine or the other three). I still do not know the cause (my most reliable local horticulturalist didn't either). It could be fungal. It could be bacterial. I dunno.

I can offer that my favorite solution of 2 tablespoons 3% hydrogen peroxide in a quart of water is an antiseptic (i.e., it nixes most fungi AND bacteria) can be used as a root dip when repotting. On the other hand, if one knows the fungi, a specific fungicide may be more effective. Likewise, if one knows it is bacterial, a specific antibiotic may be more effective.

Also, sprays/dips only affect sprores/bacterium on the exposed surfaces and will not cure infected tissues. Hence the standard operating procedure = remove infected tissue and spray. Those infected tissues are just a source of continuing infection.

Lastly, I'll note that sometimes one only needs to remove part of a leaf to remove the clearly infected tissue - just cut off the bad part of the leaf, place it in your carry around waste bin, wipe you scissor blades with an alcohol wipe, cut off the bad parts of the next leaf, etc., then spray the whole tree. If you wear gloves, spray/wash or discard them afterward as well.

 

[Jester217300]

I think this is Verticillium wilt, a fungus that J maples are particularly susceptible to.

For years I had trouble with the first flush of shin deshojo that occurred on air layers from the previous season and on the mother tree in my landscape. I observed that three other shin deshojos planted a few blocks away from me also had the same problem. There has been no trace of this trouble for two years now (with mine or the other three). I still do not know the cause (my most reliable local horticulturalist didn't either). It could be fungal. It could be bacterial. I dunno.

I don't know if I read this or made it up. But my current understanding is that trees are like people in that they have an immune response. The fungus is likely systemic to the environment. A weakened or stressed tree may develop an infection, while a healthy tree next to it won't. External environmental factors like a wet spring can exacerbate the issue.

I've had (what I believe to be) Verticillium wilt affect many J maples in my yard. It only ever effects weak trees. The strongest of the infected trees can outgrow it but usually it's a death sentence. If I see the signs of Verticillium wilt in spring and the tree is not impressive I'll just throw it away now. IMO it's not worth spreading the infection to other trees.